Is PCI Express in H2 2003 too early?

[Zenikase]

Today's link on the front page to the Dark Crow article (http://www.dvhardware.net/article.php?sid=1749) shows that the entire NV4x series of cards is apparently planned solely for the impending PCI Express bus. I'm all for moving forward, but isn't a decision like this a bit drastic? As it is, anyone who doesn't buy a new motherboard within the next year or so is going to be S.O.L. Hopefully, NVIDIA will offer both AGP8X and PCI Express parts.

[yoladude]

if they dont offer agp versions, i will be thoroughly pi$$ed off, cause i dont want or need to get a whole new pci express system yet. first of all, they aren't even OUT yet, second of all, they will probably have just emerged on the market when these cards come out, and will be expensive.
so i think (well, mostly hope) that there will be agp versions as well. it just doesn't make sense not to release agp versions at this point, maybe a couple of years down the line the cards will be exclusively pci express. after all, we've had agp for a long time, and there are still pci cards around.

[reever2]

agp -> pci express adapters...

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by reever2
agp -> pci express adapters...


thought so, no need to get a pci express card, just use ur existing agp card on the new mobo :) does it work both ways meaning you can use pci express cards on agp mobos?

[Steppy]

Originally posted by reever2
agp -> pci express adapters... Yeah, because the card will still screw into the case with the use of an adapter....NOT! This points to a later release than expected of NV40 if the story about it being PCI-express only is true. An agp slot likely will coexist with a PCI-express slot on new mobo's for a while, but I guarantee that no AGP will ever fit into a PCI express slot(and function, don't get out the hammer and chisel to prove me wrong)

[Uttar]

Psst, learn to read ;)
NV40 and NV36-X are PCI-Express and AGP. All NV4x but the NV40 are PCI-Express only. No reason for that to delay the NV40 thus.


Uttar

[The Baron]

NV40 and NV36-X are PCI-Express and AGP. All NV4x but the NV40 are PCI-Express only. No reason for that to delay the NV40 thus.
But how long will it be until we see PCI-Express on crappy OEM computers? Then again, it's not exactly like you see too many AGP cards right now to begin with, but still, switching to PCI-Express on cheapo mobos might not be cost-efficient. And if it's not, well, it's going to hurt NVIDIA a bit.

Oh wait, the 5200SE. Duh. Sorry. /me is sleepy.

[nutball]

Originally posted by The Baron
But how long will it be until we see PCI-Express on crappy OEM computers?

How long 'til we see top-of-the-range NV4x's in "crappy OEM computers"? A while, don't you think?

[The Baron]

All NV4x but the NV40 are PCI-Express only.
So, the mainstream NV4x, when it is released, would be PCI-Express only. And the mainstream/budget levels are where NVIDIA stomps ATI.

Still, with the 5200SE still around, they'll be fine... as scary as that sounds.

[Paul]

To be fair though, all the other NV4x options aren't going to debut until much later on.

I would still have thought the budget NV4x card would have been AGP though, but apparently not.

[The Baron]

Perhaps we'll see some sort of nForce IGP with NV4x-level graphics that won't need the PCI-Express port.

Maybe the P4 nForce?

[Paul]

I get the impression they're trying to move away from integrated graphics, but you could be right.

Would perhaps be a 5200 though, rather than an NV4x chip, unless such a board doesn't come out until this time next year (approaching NV45 time).

[Steppy]

Originally posted by Uttar
Psst, learn to read ;)
NV40 and NV36-X are PCI-Express and AGP. All NV4x but the NV40 are PCI-Express only. No reason for that to delay the NV40 thus.


Uttar The original post's first line was "on the front page to the Dark Crow article shows that the entire NV4x series of cards is apparently planned solely for the impending PCI Express bus" I would take that to mean that every NV4X card was like that INCLUDING NV40. And if NV40 was to use PCI-Ex only, that would point to a delay. But since it is all NV4x cards besides NV40 then that doesn't point to a delay.

[AthlonXP1800]

Originally posted by The Baron
But how long will it be until we see PCI-Express on crappy OEM computers?

It will be very soon, PCI SIG released AGP to PCI-Express and PCI/PCI-X to PCI-Express Bridge specs to make AGP to PCI-Express and PCI/PCI-X to PCI-Express bridge adapters.

We will see the first wave of motherboards with completed PCI-Express, all likely to be high end motherboards in very end of Q4 or December 2003 and begin of Q1 or January 2004. Then PCI Express will appear on all ranges of motherboards, servers, high end, mainstream, low end value and OEM in Q2 or March 2004.

I think I will wait for new Athlon 64 with dual channel memory and PCI-Express motherboard in January so I wont have any problem with use existing PCI cards and 5900 Ultra AGP card with PCI-Express bridge adapters for a while until I buy PCI-Express cards when it will be available.

[Steppy]

Originally posted by AthlonXP1800
It will be very soon, PCI SIG released AGP to PCI-Express and PCI/PCI-X to PCI-Express Bridge specs to make AGP to PCI-Express and PCI/PCI-X to PCI-Express bridge adapters.

I think I will wait for new Athlon 64 with dual channel memory and PCI-Express motherboard in January so I wont have any problem with use existing PCI cards and 5900 Ultra AGP card with PCI-Express bridge adapters for a while until I buy PCI-Express cards when it will be available. Those bridges are NOT physical adapters...They just simply allow PCI-Ex slots to coexist with current PCI and/or AGP slots. Go look at your device manager...you currently have a PCI to AGP bridge, that doesn't mean you can plug a PCI card into an AGP slot or vice versa.

[The Baron]

Originally posted by Steppy
Those bridges are NOT physical adapters...They just simply allow PCI-Ex slots to coexist with current PCI and/or AGP slots. Go look at your device manager...you currently have a PCI to AGP bridge, that doesn't mean you can plug a PCI card into an AGP slot or vice versa.
Well, if you push REALLY REALLY hard... ;)

[Geforce4ti4200]

so even when pci express comes, mobos still will have agp next to it?

[AthlonXP1800]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
so even when pci express comes, mobos still will have agp next to it?

Well no :( I saw the headlines everywhere that PCI Express will mean the death of AGP slot but you can still use the AGP card for a while with PCI Express via AGP to PCI Express adapter.

[AthlonXP1800]

This picture is PCI Express testbed motherboard, you will see here a long 16X PCIE slot to replace AGP slot. It look very nice so I wonder what 1X PCIE card look like. :)

[poursoul]

Originally posted by Steppy
Yeah, because the card will still screw into the case with the use of an adapter....NOT! This points to a later release than expected of NV40 if the story about it being PCI-express only is true. An agp slot likely will coexist with a PCI-express slot on new mobo's for a while, but I guarantee that no AGP will ever fit into a PCI express slot(and function, don't get out the hammer and chisel to prove me wrong)

ummm.... no.

it's very possible, the oem just has to include two different backplates for the card. The hard part would be getting all of them to agree on a spec. Of course it would be a little harder with cards that have a lot of connections (DVI, s-video, and DB15) It would be a lot easier with just the DB15.

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by AthlonXP1800
This picture is PCI Express testbed motherboard, you will see here a long 16X PCIE slot to replace AGP slot. It look very nice so I wonder what 1X PCIE card look like. :)


what kind of mobo is that? wheres the pci slots? the long thing is pci express, but what about those 3 short brown things? a new verson of pci?

[AthlonXP1800]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
what kind of mobo is that? wheres the pci slots? the long thing is pci express, but what about those 3 short brown things? a new verson of pci?

Dont worry about the kind of motherboard, PCI Express will use all kind of motherboards like ATX, Micro-ATX etc. Well the PCI, PCI-X and AGP slots will be long gone and will join with ISA slots belong in computer museum. :D Those 3 short slots are 1X PCI Express slots. Here are 7 differents PCI Express slots sizes and speeds: 1X, 2X, 4X, 8X, 12X, 16X and 32X. It look like we will see all these 7 PCI Express slots range from 1X to 32X on the next motherboards we will buy end of year or in January 2004.

[Steppy]

Originally posted by poursoul
ummm.... no.

it's very possible, the oem just has to include two different backplates for the card. The hard part would be getting all of them to agree on a spec. Of course it would be a little harder with cards that have a lot of connections (DVI, s-video, and DB15) It would be a lot easier with just the DB15. There is no adapter to run a AGP card in a PCI-EX slot...everyone keeps talking about this PCI-Ex to AGP bridge and thinking that it is an "adapter". It's simply what allows PCI-Ex and AGP slots to CO exist, not be interchangable. AGP is a parallel interface, PCI-Ex is a serial one...I don't even want to imagine the performance hit that would occur if this imaginary adapter did exist.

[Steppy]

Originally posted by AthlonXP1800
Dont worry about the kind of motherboard, PCI Express will use all kind of motherboards like ATX, Micro-ATX etc. Well the PCI, PCI-X and AGP slots will be long gone and will join with ISA slots belong in computer museum. :D Those 3 short slots are 1X PCI Express slots. Here are 7 differents PCI Express slots sizes and speeds: 1X, 2X, 4X, 8X, 12X, 16X and 32X. It look like we will see all these 7 PCI Express slots range from 1X to 32X on the next motherboards we will buy end of year or in January 2004. On some motherboards. Most mobos will have a combo of AGP, PCI, and PCI-Ex slots for a long while with a gradual shift to more and more PCI-ex slots. PCI and AGP will be phased out just like ISA slots(which took what 6 years to finally get rid of?).

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by Steppy
On some motherboards. Most mobos will have a combo of AGP, PCI, and PCI-Ex slots for a long while with a gradual shift to more and more PCI-ex slots. PCI and AGP will be phased out just like ISA slots(which took what 6 years to finally get rid of?).



thats what I was thinking. ISA was still on BX boards and even some athlon boards as well. I say agp and pci will be here for at least 3 years. what could be is one pci express, an agp next to it(could both be used?) then 3 regular pci slots and 2-3 pci-x slots. later on there may be one pci slot then none. agp will go next.