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surfhurleydude
08-14-03, 03:43 PM
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_211/vortal_pic_105662.jpg

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_211/vortal_pic_105661.jpg

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php?id=95176

Impressions from QuakeCon on Doom III multiplayer. I'm guessing the thing performed nicely since there were no complaints of slowdown or anything. I really wish they would release this demo on the internet officially so we can all satisfy our craving, especially since according to John Carmack, it should have been out 6 months ago.

micronX
08-14-03, 03:50 PM
The screenshots arent all that impresive. Ive witnessed UT2k3 scenes that look wayyyy better.
I think I'm just frustrated that the game hasnt been released yet.

Nutty
08-15-03, 05:55 AM
Apparently they were running on GF-FX 5900 ultra's with new AMD chips at 2ghz, in 640x480 with no AA and it still chugged when all 4 players got into a firefight. :/

I think you gotta see it moving to appeciate how good it looks.

5150 Joker
08-15-03, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
Apparently they were running on GF-FX 5900 ultra's with new AMD chips at 2ghz, in 640x480 with no AA and it still chugged when all 4 players got into a firefight. :/

I think you gotta see it moving to appeciate how good it looks.

Wow that's not a good sign..

silence
08-15-03, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
Apparently they were running on GF-FX 5900 ultra's with new AMD chips at 2ghz, in 640x480 with no AA and it still chugged when all 4 players got into a firefight. :/

I think you gotta see it moving to appeciate how good it looks.


eeeek.....640x480, no AA?:mad:

WTF they did there? is it just graphics or something else that slowed game? cause i don't see any AI in multi and this makes me wonder about singleplayer.....

i read report, sounds very interesting, not to fast paced, all kind of things happening while you play....but still......:confused:

Greg
08-15-03, 07:11 AM
Briefly looking at those two screen shots, I see a lot of shading (light side, dark side) but not a single shadow.

Kain
08-15-03, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by Greg
Briefly looking at those two screen shots, I see a lot of shading (light side, dark side) but not a single shadow. There are shadows. Look at the bots. Some are half dark due to shadows.

rokzy
08-15-03, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
Apparently they were running on GF-FX 5900 ultra's with new AMD chips at 2ghz, in 640x480 with no AA and it still chugged when all 4 players got into a firefight. :/

I think you gotta see it moving to appeciate how good it looks.

that's what they say about EVERY nvidia screenshot :rolleyes:


AFAIK graphics cards aren't optimized for low resolutions anymore; it's not always true that permormance at low resolutions with be very much better than the higher, more common gaming resolutions. so maybe 640*480 is needed now, but when they sort out performance issues, the bump to 1024*768 and higher won't be too bad?

Greg
08-15-03, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by rokzy
AFAIK graphics cards aren't optimized for low resolutions anymore; ..... but when they sort out performance issues, the bump to 1024*768 and higher won't be too bad?

The lighting method used in Doom3, could mean that for every light, the whole scene is drawn up to 3 times (eg. front face stencil, back face stencil, front face color set). So you don't need high res display to use up the filling power. It is also possible that is the reason multiplayer is limited to 4 players. If the players generate lights from weapon use etc, then the combination of possible lights from > 4 players would exceed reasonable current system performance. That's the same reason games like Blad Of Darkness never let the player use more than 1 torch at a time. Another reason for possible low resolutions is that Doom3 uses high surface detail eg. bumping, diffuse and specular lighting, which is effectively like drawing multiple times, though the latest chips can mix those colors and textures in only 1 or 2 passes.

The Baron
08-15-03, 09:11 AM
NV40 and R420 will make Doom 3 playable at oh, I dunno. Really fast.

What, you didn't think they would design cards around Doom 3? HAH. They did it around 3DMark for a few years.

Kev1
08-15-03, 11:20 AM
No Doom3 in 2003. That means I am waiting for NV40 or R420 to upgrade my video card. HL2 supposedly scales well, so my GF3 Ti200 and an XP2500 (which I'm getting soon) should play it ok without AA/AF at 10x7.

Nutty
08-15-03, 01:33 PM
The lighting method used in Doom3, could mean that for every light, the whole scene is drawn up to 3 times (eg. front face stencil, back face stencil, front face color set). So you don't need high res display to use up the filling power. It is also possible that is the reason multiplayer is limited to 4 players. If the players generate lights from weapon use etc, then the combination of possible lights from > 4 players would exceed reasonable current system performance. That's the same reason games like Blad Of Darkness never let the player use more than 1 torch at a time. Another reason for possible low resolutions is that Doom3 uses high surface detail eg. bumping, diffuse and specular lighting, which is effectively like drawing multiple times, though the latest chips can mix those colors and textures in only 1 or 2 passes.

NV30 and up have double sided stenciling, which means you can do the front face stencil and back face stencil 1 one pass.

Also ultra-shadow should help fillrate of stencil volumes as well. But stencil shadow engines do consume alot of fillrate, so increasing resolution does not just increase the fillrate of the color pixel data, there is the shadow volume per light also. So pushing the res up, has a huge impact on fillrate.

I'm quite surprised by the statement that it chugs a bit in a firefight tho. Does anyone have those infamous doom3 benchmarks on nv35/9800 link anywhere? I thought they showed doom3 at a high res, still attaining decent speed. Unless they've added some new engine effects in, I guess the hit blurring will take an additional toll on fillrate too.

I wish someone would hurry up and stick a movie of it up.. I'm gagging here...

nin_fragile14
08-15-03, 01:47 PM
From what I've heard, the redness in the screenshots is due to an alarm that goes off every few minutes. It splashes the area in red light, causing some serious shadowing effects. (Regardless, the screenshots still look bad, but I'm sure it looks great in motion).

Nutty
08-15-03, 02:30 PM
did you realize the screenshots are 4000x4000?
Try blowing them up to the proper res, they look alot better. :)

Chalnoth
08-15-03, 02:33 PM
One quick beef:
I do hope that DOOM3 isn't the same monochrome crap that's been coming out of id for years. But it probably will be.

The game should be fun, though, if boring in the color department.

StealthHawk
08-15-03, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
NV40 and R420 will make Doom 3 playable at oh, I dunno. Really fast.

What, you didn't think they would design cards around Doom 3? HAH. They did it around 3DMark for a few years.

NVIDIA sure as hell didn't design NV3x for 3dmark03 or Doom3 :eek:

RAY16
08-15-03, 11:08 PM
I'm going to laugh, and start looking for it if somebody leaks this demo.

The Baron
08-15-03, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by RAY16
I'm going to laugh, and start looking for it if somebody leaks this demo.
You will until John Carmack shows up at the houses of everyone who downloaded it with a shotgun and a guy he calls Silent Bob.

surfhurleydude
08-15-03, 11:25 PM
Apparently they were running on GF-FX 5900 ultra's with new AMD chips at 2ghz, in 640x480 with no AA and it still chugged when all 4 players got into a firefight. :/

Sorry, but I have an EXTREMELY hard time believing that, despite what an impression or two says. Especially since the alpha runs fairly well on sub 5900 Ultra series cards... Meaning cards running the alpha below that 1. Aren't optimized for it, and 2. Don't have as much horsepower. Also, AI routines are taken out for the multiplayer modes.

GlowStick
08-16-03, 03:53 AM
The screenshots are amazeing, i guess people dont realize that the lights and shadows or 'dark spots' are not prerenderd like in ut2k3.

Also, if anyone has read the homelanfed report that the id employes gave, doom3 has a dam good physics system, better than HL2's. weather they show it off in preplaned demos or not.

StealthHawk
08-16-03, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Sorry, but I have an EXTREMELY hard time believing that, despite what an impression or two says. Especially since the alpha runs fairly well on sub 5900 Ultra series cards... Meaning cards running the alpha below that 1. Aren't optimized for it, and 2. Don't have as much horsepower. Also, AI routines are taken out for the multiplayer modes.

Yes, but the alpha did not have four players in the same room at the same time creating light sources, in addition to whatever sources exist in the map. Also you are ignoring the fact that this build of Doom3 could be more graphically intense than the leaked alpha was.

Nutty
08-16-03, 06:45 AM
Glowstick, yeah these two points;

Hollenshead said he was not worried about other highly anticipated games like Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 taking away some of Doom III’s thunder, saying, “We don’t need other games to suck for ours to be good.”


Willits said that the physics engine for Doom III is a unique id Software engine and is not a licensed engine like other games have. Willits described a Doom III test map where 100 boxes are stacked up and one shot can bring the entire stack down. Willits claimed such a scene would bring other game physics engines down to their knees.

:D

rokzy
08-16-03, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
Willits said that the physics engine for Doom III is a unique id Software engine and is not a licensed engine like other games have. Willits described a Doom III test map where 100 boxes are stacked up and one shot can bring the entire stack down. Willits claimed such a scene would bring other game physics engines down to their knees.

:D

sounds good, but HL2 puts its video where its mouth is.

surfhurleydude
08-16-03, 09:13 AM
Yes, but the alpha did not have four players in the same room at the same time creating light sources, in addition to whatever sources exist in the map. Also you are ignoring the fact that this build of Doom3 could be more graphically intense than the leaked alpha was.

Alpha was not powererd nor optimized for a GeForce FX 5900 Ultra either, was it? Also, like I said, in the Alpha you could get multiple models on screen at once. I have no trouble believing that there was slowdown, but I definitely have trouble believing that it was running at 640x480 resolution.

Head_slinger
08-16-03, 09:23 AM
yeah, the alpha ran fine on my Geforce 4 Ti 4400. 30fps 1024. The only time it was brought down to its knees was when loud sounds were played, like when i shot something. Other than that it was highly playable.