PDA

View Full Version : FRAPs keeps FX Flow in 3D mode?


ricercar
08-14-03, 06:02 PM
I installed the free FRAPS 2.0 yesterday, and upon reboot my 5800 Ultra "FX Flow" fan refused to turn off, even with no 3D game active, with no 3D bench running. The fan stayed powered up indefinitely, while running only Windows XP Pro desktop and Eudora 5.x (email), The card appeared to stay in 3D mode until I de-installed FRAPS three reboots later.

Is this expected behavior? I certainly did not expect it.

poursoul
08-14-03, 06:07 PM
This is VERY interesting.

What version driver are you using?

[THIS IS ONLY IN THEORY]

Remember just a few weeks ago everyone and thier pet hampster was saying "If you want to bench mark right, USE FRAPS with real games." What if NVidia put a script into the drivers to OC the card when fraps is running. Isn't there an option to start fraps with windows? Is that the default setting?

[/THIS IS ONLY IN THEORY]

DAMN! What if?

ricercar
08-14-03, 06:11 PM
The 5800 Ultra was running 44.03. FRAPS default install loaded with Windows. I admit I didn't check FRAPS configuration much once I realized the fan wasn't shutting down.

I need to test FRAPS on 45.23 and also on my 5800 decaf. That would be really cheezy if FRAPS made NVIDIA drivers go faster. :eek:

poursoul
08-14-03, 06:21 PM
DAMN!

Rytr
08-14-03, 06:33 PM
:D Come on guys, its a little early in the day! :D (J/K)

I have been using Fraps intensively for the past few days and I have not noticed the fan running at full speed or 3D as you put it. I will check it close tonight.

gokickrocks
08-14-03, 08:00 PM
did the problem still occur when fraps was disabled in systray?

ricercar
08-14-03, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by gokickrocks
did the problem still occur when fraps was disabled in systray?

No, i had to de-install (used Add/remove programs) to make the fan turn off.

Greg
08-15-03, 12:23 AM
I have no intimate knowledge of how FRAPs works, but if the program did so much as create a D3DDevice object so it could overlay its frame counter etc, then the nVidia driver would likely think a 3d program was running and correctly set the cooling mode on high. You might want to talk to the FRAPs developer about this issue.

Morrow
08-15-03, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by Greg
I have no intimate knowledge of how FRAPs works, but if the program did so much as create a D3DDevice object so it could overlay its frame counter etc, then the nVidia driver would likely think a 3d program was running and correctly set the cooling mode on high. You might want to talk to the FRAPs developer about this issue.

probably this is the right explanation of the problem, if it is real after all.

It's incredible how people are immediately sure that nvidia cheats when such an issue pops up. Overclocking the card when Fraps is started... come on.

Try to find a more real solution first!

gokickrocks
08-15-03, 12:26 PM
it uses hooks instead of an overlay...

poursoul
08-15-03, 04:46 PM
I don't give a F*** about nvidia or ati, i have no preference to either, i hardly even play games anymore anyway. Now about this "immediately certain" thing your throwing around. I believe i had a disclaimer, saying only in theory.

I simply thought i was being really witty for a second.

If i'm on the bandwagon that does nothing but bash NV then i guess you're on the one that defends them no matter how much they f*** up. I thought that was the definition for fanboi.

P.S. I would have done this nicely in a PM, but you've chosen not to use that feature.

ricercar
08-15-03, 06:12 PM
Be so kind as to not crap on my thread, folks. Let's stick to the FRAPS issue, please?

Thank you.

MikeC
08-15-03, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Greg
You might want to talk to the FRAPs developer about this issue.

I've passed this link on to Rod Mahler who developed FRAPS.

roderick
08-16-03, 12:19 AM
It'll just be the drivers detecting Fraps as a 3d application.

When Fraps is run, it loads Direct Draw and Direct 3D in order to gather information that is needed for the program to operate. I do unload the graphics DirectX DLL's as soon as I have gathered the information.

I'm guessing the drivers are waiting for the process to end before they set everything back to 2D mode. So there's probably nothing I can do about it.

Anyway this won't have any effect on benchmarks. Unless you are benching 2D ;)

By the way, if the fan stayed on after you rebooted (and you didn't load fraps), then it sounds like some other issue.

poursoul
08-16-03, 03:05 AM
Thanks for clearing that up so quick rod :thumbsup:

P.S. sorry for thread crapping.

SH64
08-16-03, 04:58 AM
i dont trust Fraps anymore .
i used 2.0 & found many issues in it like when i used it to find the av. fps for unreal 2 & it gave me different numbers than unreal2 fps counter .

i used to for quake 3 & it just kept getting me 91 fps whatever i did !it just look like its limited to that value & cant go beyond even 1 fps more!!
funny thing that it gave me the same 91 with both MSI 5900 Ultra & AIW 9800 pro ...
when i tried another program (Bench'em all) i got the real fps which was 279 :D

roderick
08-16-03, 06:54 AM
This message was a bit harsh. More detailed response further down

SH64
08-16-03, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by roderick
You expect me to believe that Fraps is inaccurate when you can't even adjust the maxfps setting in Quake?

Learn how to benchmark without relying on another program to configure the engine, and you might understand why you are seeing the results you are.

Fraps just reports the numbers. Whether or not you like them is another matter :)

i mentioned Q3 just for example ...
i've tried many other games & bench tests & fraps wasent giving an accurate numbers ..

rokzy
08-16-03, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by SH64
i dont trust Fraps anymore .
i used 2.0 & found many issues in it like when i used it to find the av. fps for unreal 2 & it gave me different numbers than unreal2 fps counter .

i used to for quake 3 & it just kept getting me 91 fps whatever i did !it just look like its limited to that value & cant go beyond even 1 fps more!!
funny thing that it gave me the same 91 with both MSI 5900 Ultra & AIW 9800 pro ...
when i tried another program (Bench'em all) i got the real fps which was 279 :D

AFAIK FRAPS gives the average over the whole benchmark, the FPS counter gives a running average for recent frames.

sounds like you haven't got a clue what you're doing. nvidia said not to trust FRAPS and now you're mistaking you being a retard with them being right.

SH64
08-16-03, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by rokzy
AFAIK FRAPS gives the average over the whole benchmark, the FPS counter gives a running average for recent frames.

sounds like you haven't got a clue what you're doing. nvidia said not to trust FRAPS and now you're mistaking you being a retard with them being right.

the fps counter gives the current fps & it save it second by second in a txt file & it also show you the current fps while playing & you can get the average fps by assigning a button to do it ...
i know what i was doing dumbass :rolleyes:

i was saying that it gave a fixed number wether its a current fps or average fps & that number wasnt even close to the real current fps at the moment ..also changing the res. or turning the AA & AF 2x or 4x or OFF didnt change the number even 1 frame + or -
so .. open your eyes before you flame.

why i'm using fraps thats another matter cuz someone told me about it & i was just trying it NOT relying to it .

roderick
08-16-03, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by SH64
i was saying that it gave a fixed number wether its a current fps or average fps & that number wasnt even close to the real current fps at the moment ..also changing the res. or turning the AA & AF 2x or 4x or OFF didnt change the number even 1 frame + or -
so .. open your eyes before you flame.

The reason why changing all the options resulted in the same frame rate is because you have a fast card. Nearly all cards thesedays are capable of running Q3 at hundreds of FPS with all options enabled.

However Q3 by default limits the max fps to the rate you are seeing. To disable this for benchmarking, go to the console and type "/timedemo 1". You will then see fraps reporting much higher numbers because the game is no longer limiting itself.

FYI, the reason why Fraps is accurate is because it records a timestamp for every single frame that is rendered. When a new frame is displayed Fraps looks back over the previous frames and counts EXACTLY how many frames were drawn in the prior second. This calculation is done on each and every new frame, and the number is an exact count of the frames for the last second.

Games differ in how they implement their own frame rate counters. They might average over a much larger interval (i.e. 10 seconds). They may also try to calculate an instantaneous frame rate by looking at just the time taken to render the current frame, and divide this into a second to get an approximate fps rate. This can lead to large fluctuations in the reported fps.

With regards to Nvidia's comments, they have been taken greatly out of context. Their concern was with how reviewers interpret the data that Fraps can produce. Do they ensure their benchmarks start and end at the exact same point across cards etc.

Rytr
08-16-03, 11:48 AM
Much better explanation, thanks!