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army of one
08-22-03, 11:42 AM
hey i visit here all the itme reading and reading and i just came across some extra money. now i have somehwere in the $300 range to spend. and the big question is

eVGA GeForceFX 5900 128Mb - $249
Gigabyte radeon 9800 pro 128 - $320

i wanna know what is better off i mean will DET 50's realy help out the performance and i know that the FX has a higher bandwith so does this mean i can use more AA and AF then on the radeon... i also like the fact that Nvidia gets with developers to make there games work better with the cards.. so can someone please help thanx again


CURENT SPECS

Amd athlon 2400+
Gigabyte 7vaxp ultra
radeon 9500 pro
40 gig seagate 7200rpm
512 mb pc2100 crucial
windows XP home SP1

Rogozhin
08-22-03, 11:48 AM
The Radeon 9800 128mb outperforms a 5900 non ultra-and ati works with devs (Raven Shield, HL2) on games.

rogo

army of one
08-22-03, 11:57 AM
ya but wont the higher bandwith on the FX benifit over the 9800's

bkswaney
08-22-03, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by army of one
ya but wont the higher bandwith on the FX benifit over the 9800's

Not in any test I've seen. :)

The 9800Pro-128 trades benchmark wins with even the 5900Ultra.

It's hard to beat the 9800Pro right now. It's the best all around card
you can buy. :)

Also if u overclock the 9800 to 750+ plus the memory side
the 9800's bandwidth takes a nice jump up. ;)

army of one
08-22-03, 12:09 PM
ok i just found a 9800 non-pro for $232 thats sounds like a nice deal... now can the non-pro still out perform the 5900 even with it only clocked to 325/580... thanks for the help as this sounds like a nice deal for $232 or should i go with 5900 for $250 so now just forget about the pro and ultras witch is better and after overclocks

this is the site and im almost positive its not an SE
http://www.pcrapids.com/home.asp?pw=y&pwl=search/productdesc.asp?lsskuid=VidATI128M01978

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by army of one
ok i just found a 9800 non-pro for $232 thats sounds like a nice deal... now can the non-pro still out perform the 5900 even with it only clocked to 325/580... thanks for the help as this sounds like a nice deal for $232 or should i go with 5900 for $250 so now just forget about the pro and ultras witch is better and after overclocks

this is the site and im almost positive its not an SE
http://www.pcrapids.com/home.asp?pw=y&pwl=search/productdesc.asp?lsskuid=VidATI128M01978
I'm pretty sure the 9800np will still beat the 5900 cold, but it's a bit of a moot point since I've also heard that the 9800 OCs pretty well and has much better image quality and MUCH better AA speed. ;)

9800.

Malfunction
08-22-03, 12:53 PM
See, I thought the 9800 Non Pro was limited as to how far it can be overclocked, where as the 5900 Non Ultra can o/c almost as high as the 5900 Ultra version can thus performing better in everything else except 3DMark and UT2K3.

That discussion was over here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16615

If you are talking about the 9800 Pro vs. 5900 Non Ultra, it is still tuff because the Non Ultra can o/c so high. Although the AA/AF and trilinear filtering works on everything the 9800 Pro plays vs. the 5900 Non Ultra so I would say that is the major selling point on top of the qualities of AA.

Ofcourse, it is a big "IF" on this all changing when the Det 50's role on out.

Personal preference and the games you play could be the deciding factor. Both are great cards, not too sure about the 9800 Non Pro though... too many mixed feelings about that card. People say "nay" then say "yay." It gets confusing... :confused:

Peace,

:)

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Malfunction
Ofcourse, it is a big "IF" on this all changing when the Det 50's role on out.
Uhm....no. No, no, NO!

You can't honestly suggest that we have this poor fellow believe in nVidia's PR machine to make his decision...can ya?

Don't count on any miracles from the det 5s, you'll be very disapointed. :(

Paul
08-22-03, 01:06 PM
Of course, don't UNDERestimate the drivers either ;)

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Paul
Of course, don't UNDERestimate the drivers either ;)
With nVidia's track record lately, I truly don't think that is possible. :|

Mark_fox
08-22-03, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer

Don't count on any miracles from the det 5s, you'll be very disapointed. :(

well...hehe...I don't know about that digi, I don't know about that ;) :D

Gator
08-22-03, 02:53 PM
I'm not going to go into specifics and debates, I'm onyl gonna say that for myself I would rather take the R9800 non-pro. The R9800 series has been performing great in nearly every review, and I honestly see Nvidia as second place now. Will the naked eye really know the difference? Of course not. But I still think the R9800 series simply has more going for it.

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Mark_fox
well...hehe...I don't know about that digi, I don't know about that ;) :D
I know you don't, that's why you haven't been posting much and when you do it's only with very vague and nebulous quickies. :rolleyes: ;)

Skuzzy
08-22-03, 03:27 PM
Clock for clock, transistor for transistor, and dollar for dollar the 9800/R3xx is just mauling NVidia.

I still want to know why the 5900U has to be clocked so high to maintain pace with the 9800Pro? The 5900U transistor count is much higher than the 9800's, yet the 9800 can do hardware AF, the 5900U cannot and must resort to drivers for that. The 9800 can do displacement mapping, the 5900U does not even support it.
The lower clocked 9800Pro maintains pace with the higher clocked 5900U, and beats it in some areas.
The 9800Pro runs at FP24, always, while the 5900U runs mostly as FP16 or INT12.

None of it adds up, not at all. As an engineer it is frustrating.

The Baron
08-22-03, 03:29 PM
Skuzzy, have you read Uttar's stuff on ILDP? It makes an absurd amount of sense.

And by the way, did you get my email? If not, give me a ring, I must have the wrong one for you.

Malfunction
08-22-03, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Clock for clock, transistor for transistor, and dollar for dollar the 9800/R3xx is just mauling NVidia.

I still want to know why the 5900U has to be clocked so high to maintain pace with the 9800Pro? The 5900U transistor count is much higher than the 9800's, yet the 9800 can do hardware AF, the 5900U cannot and must resort to drivers for that. The 9800 can do displacement mapping, the 5900U does not even support it.
The lower clocked 9800Pro maintains pace with the higher clocked 5900U, and beats it in some areas.
The 9800Pro runs at FP24, always, while the 5900U runs mostly as FP16 or INT12.

None of it adds up, not at all. As an engineer it is frustrating.

This doesn't have any relation to the NV35 not having a low-k dielectric? :confused:

Peace,

:|

Skuzzy
08-22-03, 03:54 PM
Wish I could use that for an excuse Malfunction, but it doesn't even come close.

I guess it could boil down to two questions.

1) Is NVidia that bad of an engineering company? or
2) Is ATI that good of an engineering company?

Sheesh, hated to even type it. Too easy and still will not answer my questions with any accuracy and mostly wild speculation. Stuff that drives engineers nuts! Frustrating, I tell ya.

Bah! This is OT. Sorry for the hijack.

Paul
08-22-03, 03:55 PM
Way to oversimplify matters :rolleyes:

There is more to the success of a chip then just the engineering brains behind it. Money, time, equipment, manpower... These things all play a role.

And played a role in the NV3x.

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I guess it could boil down to two questions.

1) Is NVidia that bad of an engineering company? or
2) Is ATI that good of an engineering company?
I can't decide, it's just SO hard to choose! :lol: ;)

Skuzzy
08-22-03, 04:12 PM
Paul, I agree. I hated to even type it and if you read my post, I also said it was too easy.

I know that nothing said about the questions I asked/posed would/could be nothing more than speculation.

Silicone is silicone, for the most part. What you wring out of it can vary, depending on many factors. But the descrepancy between the two companies flagship parts is way too vast. All I want to know, or at least come to grips with is, why?

It's the engineer in me. Realistically, the question will not be answered, but it should at least be asked.

Malfunction
08-22-03, 04:28 PM
Hey Skuzzy,

was your B-Day yesterday or something... I couldn't tell if it was morning or evening when I looked...lol but happy b-day. ;)

:balloon: :alc: :birthday: :cool3: :lol:

Peace,

:D

P.S. Sorry reply had nothing to do with topic. ;)

Skuzzy
08-22-03, 04:39 PM
Not my birthday Malfunction, but thanks for the thought.

digitalwanderer
08-22-03, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Not my birthday Malfunction, but thanks for the thought.
Well then, a very merry un-birthday to you! ;)

Malfunction
08-22-03, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Well then, a very merry un-birthday to you! ;)

lol... oops. :D

Peace,

:D

NKVD
08-22-03, 05:29 PM
Get FX 5900

Everyone here only tells you about how ATI outperforms FX, in reality the difference is very small, and hardly noticeable...In some instances maybe +10fps at most.

What ATI fans don't tell you is that you will run in many problems with older games (made in 2001 and older). For instance, FX 5900 outperforms 9800 PRO in Operation Flashpoint. And you can't run OFP with HW&TL (very improtant feature) with ATI card because your shadows will flicker, or game will crash after several minutes. This is just an example. There are many other games that even with latest Catalysts have problems with ATI (flickering textures, shadows, crashing).

But if you plan on playing only modern games like UT-2, UT2003, Americas ARmy and etc - Radeon 9800 PRO is faster than FX 5900 but not faster than FX 5900 ULTRA.

p.s. Half Life-2 team is working also with Nvidia now so FX users will have all features in game like it supposed to be. And DOOM3 ALpha runs faster on FX 5900 (25%) than analog Radeon 9800.