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991060
08-28-03, 01:20 AM
quote from 3DGPU:

"This isn't confirmed as 100% official, so keep that in mind. On the HalfLife2.net forums, a gamer emailed Gabe Newell of Valve Software, and asked him a question in regards to GeForce FX cards dismal performance in Tomb Raider using PS 2.0 brought up by the article on Beyond3D (see this post). Here's the question he asked Gabe:


Is a ATi 9800pro card really alot better for HL2 then Nvidia's FX5900? Or is the difference not that big (quality & fps wise)?
Here's the answer he got:


I have been a long-time NVIDIA card user. Currently I have ATI 9800 Pro's in both my work and home machines.

The DX9 performance described by the Beyond3D article is consistent with what we've been seeing.
If the email really is from Gabe, then this just doesn't bode well for NVIDIA for their current line of cards. "

check out the original link:

http://www.3dgpu.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=315

and

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1298&perpage=15&pagenumber=17

aapo
08-28-03, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by 991060
If the email really is from Gabe,

Yes, this is a questionable thing. I don't see why Gabe Newell would state such a thing before they publicly launch their benchmark. And additionally, the original poster was registered to the forum only a couple of months ago. But I still think it's possible the speed issue with NV3X might be real anyway, so we shall see, I guess. ;)

EDIT: Uh-huh, I guess the forum itself isn't really old, so my point about the registering date of the poster is kind of irrelevant... :p

reever2
08-28-03, 01:51 AM
Look through the rest of the thread, i believe theres atleast 3 other emails of people asking for hardware recommendations for playing hl2 and in every one he says buy a 9800 pro, and hey, if you think the email isnt from him you could always email him yourself witha similar question

991060
08-28-03, 01:52 AM
Errrr, anyone knows Gabe's email? we can write to him for confirmation.:D

bkswaney
08-28-03, 02:45 AM
I think out of all the test over months now we all know
the 9800 or 9900 is going to be the better cards. ;)

991060
08-28-03, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I think out of all the test over months now we all know
the 9800 or 9900 is going to be the better cards. ;)

The question is that how "BETTER" they are.

10%-20%? I think it's acceptable.

if it's more than 25%, those FX owner is having troubles.

volt
08-28-03, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by 991060
Errrr, anyone knows Gabe's email? we can write to him for confirmation.:D

Go to the previous page on that thread, the e-mail is listed in one of the posts.

Dazz
08-28-03, 03:25 AM
Valve, confirmed that there will be a benchmark program out before the game comes out but they didn't say when :(

991060
08-28-03, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by volt
Go to the previous page on that thread, the e-mail is listed in one of the posts.


just sent him an email,waiting for response:)

991060
08-28-03, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
Valve, confirmed that there will be a benchmark program out before the game comes out but they didn't say when :(

They did' t even say the benchmark tool is for public use,maybe just for big hardware sites?:mad:

bkswaney
08-28-03, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by 991060
The question is that how "BETTER" they are.

10%-20%? I think it's acceptable.

if it's more than 25%, those FX owner is having troubles.

In DX9 and PS 2.0 how about 50% faster. :p

StealthHawk
08-28-03, 05:17 AM
Well, when the whole HL2 FSAA ordeal was going on, didn't he or someone else from Valve recommend the r9800Pro as the best current card for the game? Why is it surprising that ATI cards are still being recommended?

Somewhat OT: Where was it said that NV3x runs HL2 shaders 5-10x slower than R3xx, because people have said that for awhile. More precisely, people have said Gabe Newell or someone else at Valve stated this. Where is the source?

aapo
08-28-03, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk Somewhat OT: Where was it said that NV3x runs HL2 shaders 5-10x slower than R3xx, because people have said that for awhile.

I'd be really surprised if the difference would be that big. More like 2x - 4x I'd say. And after nVidia "optimizes" aka rewrites the shaders, the difference will be even smaller. The Radeons will still have a slight advantage, though.

saturnotaku
08-28-03, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Well, when the whole HL2 FSAA ordeal was going on, didn't he or someone else from Valve recommend the r9800Pro as the best current card for the game? Why is it surprising that ATI cards are still being recommended?

Valve has been recommending the 9800 Pro since at least E3. In the demo video the presenter clearly mentions this card. I can watch and post his exact words if you want, but I know that's where I heard it. And I think that was before the whole FSAA fiasco.

RipItup
08-28-03, 09:19 AM
It'll be interesting to see the results from the benchmark because say the FX 5900 gives half the performance of the 9800 ( half half-life = quarterlife ?? ) but the 9800 Pro does 100fps then this is not so bad. But if the 9800Pro only gives 60fps then of course it is. If the 9800 Pro gives 40 with all the goodies then , oh dear.

Anyone got any ideas how they perform at present, someone must have leaked the odd fps ??

Regards

Andy

NickSpolec
08-28-03, 09:22 AM
Valve, confirmed that there will be a benchmark program out before the game comes out but they didn't say when

But who here doubts if they release any HL2 benchmark that Nvidia will "optimize" it, thus, trying to trick and deceive the public.

It's all but assurd that the first driver release after the benchmark is released will magically make it run better on the 5900 then it does on the 9800.

The Baron
08-28-03, 09:27 AM
Didn't Valve say they encouraged shader replacement?

Get ready for a game that looks quite different from one card to another.

Sazar
08-28-03, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Didn't Valve say they encouraged shader replacement?

Get ready for a game that looks quite different from one card to another.

they could make hl2 look like hl :D

that would be sweet in a way.. going old school all the way babee.e...

Hellbinder
08-28-03, 09:41 AM
Fist of all i posted this whole thing, and direct links in the Synthetic benchmarks dont lie thread last night.

Somewhat OT: Where was it said that NV3x runs HL2 shaders 5-10x slower than R3xx, because people have said that for awhile. More precisely, people have said Gabe Newell or someone else at Valve stated this. Where is the source?

That is precicely accurate. The specific statements was that the R350 runs HL2 shaders 5x and as high as 10x faster than the 5900U. This was a little over a month ago I believe. It was in a response to a thread somewhere. I believe it was at Bluesnews. It is 100% accurate. I read it myself. It has been referenced by several people since. I dont have a direct link yet. But i think it was referenceed at B3D in some threads there a well.

People saying that 2-4x *sounds* bettter. That may be true but that is not what was said. specifically 5X-10X was mentioned. Now of course Nvidia has doubtless been working on this so their is likely improvements of some kind. However the game is getting pretty close to release and Gabe Newel is still recomending 9800pro, and he says he is *Seeing similar results to TR*.

The Tomb raider benchmark had the 9800pro between 2x-6x faster. HL2 is using much more robust DX9 shaders. Its really not that hard to believe, think that a *least* 5x faster is pretty reasonable.

Hellbinder
08-28-03, 09:45 AM
Here is the link to my post on this last night.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=182587

reever2
08-28-03, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by 991060
Errrr, anyone knows Gabe's email? we can write to him for confirmation.:D

You can also talk to them through steam, just search for their names

IISquintsII
08-28-03, 12:30 PM
What the hell is steam?

reever2
08-28-03, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by IISquintsII
What the hell is steam?

Valve's media distribution program

Uttar
08-28-03, 02:07 PM
The NV3X is not only looking bad in HL2 and Tomb Raider.
It's also looking bad in another next generation engine making heavy use of PS2.0. technologies, probably at least as much as HL2. And no, I'm not talking about a game which has already been announced, but it IS obvious it is in development ( will be even more so soon :D )

The Det50s are scheduled to be released before HL2 though. So, if nVidia manages to deliver the goods this time, they might lose nowhere as dramatically as before, and this without any cheating. Although hoping they'd win extreme PS2.0. benchmarks would still be delusional IMO, but we'll see.


Uttar

The Baron
08-28-03, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
The NV3X is not only looking bad in HL2 and Tomb Raider.
It's also looking bad in another next generation engine making heavy use of PS2.0. technologies, probably at least as much as HL2. And no, I'm not talking about a game which has already been announced, but it IS obvious it is in development ( will be even more so soon :D )
I would guess Max Payne 2, but then I'd be wrong... damnit Uttar, don't make me PM you again or search for you on whatever SWG server you play on! :)