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View Full Version : Official Det. 50 release info


Slappi
08-30-03, 09:02 AM
Here is what you all have been waiting for :


-left missing nut digitally attached to all FX cards.

That is all

Dragunov
08-30-03, 09:26 AM
What do you mean??

Dragunov

digitalwanderer
08-30-03, 09:32 AM
ROFLMFAO!

Ok, it's a troll but I thought it was funny! :lol:

Slappi
08-30-03, 09:40 AM
Me?!? A troll?!? Nope.....just passing some time. nVidia is starting to piss me off .... I am wondering if I should sell my 5900 now on ebay or wait for the det 50s and the r360, NV38 specs and release dates. I could get $300 now for it but I wouldn't have a card in the interim ... decisions decisions.

digitalwanderer
08-30-03, 10:18 AM
Tough call, extremely tough. I've heard the 5900 ain't no slouch at gaming, it'd be hard to go without 'til something comes out. :(

StealthHawk
08-30-03, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Slappi
Here is what you all have been waiting for :


-left missing nut digitally attached to all FX cards.

That is all

You aren't that far off if the Det50's really improve PS2.0 performance like so many NVIDIots are claiming/hoping they will :p

Ellisd
09-01-03, 03:32 PM
Can someone tell me what is so great about the det. 50. Everyone be waiting for it, but I haven't even heard why its so great.

The Baron
09-01-03, 03:42 PM
According to some, it will finally fix broken implementations of NV3x stuff in earlier driver revisions, making the NV3x the undisputed speed king.

In reality, though, it probably won't do too much.

Ellisd
09-01-03, 04:00 PM
I guess that all good but i haven't see any problems with my 5900 so far.

Dragunov
09-02-03, 01:52 AM
Maybe they gonna replace some shaders in the drivers

Dragunov

Syan
09-02-03, 02:26 AM
In reality, though, it probably won't do too much.

You of course being the expert at video card driver development. I'm gonna assume you work at Nvidia since you seem to know more than I do. I personally have no idea how the det 50 drivers turn out, that's just coming from a consumer who only knows what he has read about thus far.

Sazar
09-02-03, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Syan
You of course being the expert at video card driver development. I'm gonna assume you work at Nvidia since you seem to know more than I do. I personally have no idea how the det 50 drivers turn out, that's just coming from a consumer who only knows what he has read about thus far.

dood.. you have been on these boards a day... not even... and are inciting people already...

go easy... this is an nvidia oriented board... there is no need to post psuedo bait-worthy material in every post you are making...

StealthHawk
09-02-03, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by Dragunov
Maybe they gonna replace some shaders in the drivers

Dragunov

That is not a fix for the disease. It is only a remedy for the symptoms. How long do you think it will be before NVIDIA gives up on rewriting shaders for new games that come out? It will happen eventually.

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Syan
You of course being the expert at video card driver development. I'm gonna assume you work at Nvidia since you seem to know more than I do. I personally have no idea how the det 50 drivers turn out, that's just coming from a consumer who only knows what he has read about thus far.
Wow, nVidia was serious about when they said they'd get people more active on the boards! :rolleyes: :lol:

Mr.Consumer, I highly suggest you go read up a bit before you go embarressing yourself anymore. ;)

The Baron
09-02-03, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Syan
You of course being the expert at video card driver development. I'm gonna assume you work at Nvidia since you seem to know more than I do. I personally have no idea how the det 50 drivers turn out, that's just coming from a consumer who only knows what he has read about thus far.
If you're thinking the Det50s will be a magical panacea for the FX's woes, that is very weak shader performance, welcome to disappointment land.

See, they could fix it if it wasn't broken in hardware. Think about it.

NV30 is launched in November, officially. In reality, biggest paper launch of all time--REVIEW SAMPLES aren't even available until January, and it is quickly abandoned. Retail cards are all but nonexistent.

NV35 is launched less than four months later.

Why?

Because NVIDIA didn't count on HLSL catching on like it has. They figured it would be business as usual, Doom 3 and DX7-level tech would dominate. R300 also caught them by surprise. NVIDIA believed that ATI would not be able to provide any sort of competition for NV30. They did, and R300 beat NV30 handily. So, the date between NV30 and NV35 review samples being available is less than half the time of past product cycles. Why? Because NVIDIA believed that if they supported PS2.0/VS2.0 in the hardware, it could be used for Nifty Tech Demos and Games That Come Out In Three Years, but it wouldn't mean anything (think about all of the stupid features that are heavily lauded when video cards first come out--99% of them disappear). They counted on being the fastest with current-gen games.

But then, they weren't. At all. There was no convincing reason for the average gamer to buy an NV30 over an R300 except Linux drivers and ATI driver maturity (although NVIDIA hasn't exactly been the pinnacle of driver goodness lately).

So, in NVIDIA's realization of, "Holy Crap we screwed up," they fixed the 128-bit memory bus, removed the DDR2 and dustbuster, and called it the NV35. Hell, it was basically a move from a 9600 to a 9600 Pro or something like that. The chips are almost completely identical. They didn't have time to fix the PS speed, improve antialiasing, or anything like that--NV35 was rushed like the Bengals' quarterback just so NVIDIA could stay competitive with current games.

But now HLSL has caught on, and games that use PS2.0 are coming out. NVIDIA didn't plan for this. NVIDIA can't do anything about this except through shader replacement. Come on, do you really think they would have spent as much time as they did optimizing for 3DMark and Shadermark if they thought they could fix the PS2.0 implementation with drivers? Be reasonable.

It will be fixed in NV40. Maybe in NV38 if the gods smile upon NVIDIA. But, you cannot remove hardware limitations with a driver update. The slow PS2.0 speed was a conscious design decision. It was one of the tradeoffs of the NV30. Looking at it based upon DirectX 8 usage at the time and assuming DX9 would be the same, it was the smart way to go. Problem is that HLSL's growing use is pretty surprising. It was unexpected. In 20/20 hindsight, the decision which seemed inherently obvious turned out to be not the best choice. Oh well.

Maybe I'm full of crap, and NV3x contains Super Secret Stuff that wasn't enabled due to driver problems. In that case, more power to em with Det50. I just don't see how they can do it short of disabling FP32 and running in FX12 straight.

The Baron
09-02-03, 09:39 AM
.. and has NVIDIA even mentioned the Det50s? you're all counting the Uberperformance Enhancements based on what the Inquirer says, and we know how often the Inquirer is right (or gets their info first).

The Baron
09-02-03, 10:07 AM
Number two--this wasn't a flame in any way, just a statement of what I believe to be true. I'm also REALLY REALLY sick of hearing how Det50 is going to be the Second Coming of the NV25 versus the R200.

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Number two--this wasn't a flame in any way, just a statement of what I believe to be true. I'm also REALLY REALLY sick of hearing how Det50 is going to be the Second Coming of the NV25 versus the R200.
Yeah, I sort of wish nVidia would just release 'em so people would stop telling me how much better they're going to make the FX too. :)

saturnotaku
09-02-03, 11:07 AM
Baron is so smart, Baron is so smart, Baron is so smart, S-M-R-T...I mean S-M-A-R-T :D

Syan
09-02-03, 12:58 PM
I wasn't trying to be flame bait, I'm just simply saying that we really don't know how much the drivers will improve performance and such. Do we? I think only the guys at Nvidia know exactly whats going to happen. When we look forward to upcoming ATi drivers, we expect good stuff. I personally haven't had any problems with my 5900 yet, so saying these drivers are supposed to "do wonders" for me doesn't really say much. However, I do expect improvements.

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Syan
I wasn't trying to be flame bait, I'm just simply saying that we really don't know how much the drivers will improve performance and such. Do we? I think only the guys at Nvidia know exactly whats going to happen. When we look forward to upcoming ATi drivers, we expect good stuff. I personally haven't had any problems with my 5900 yet, so saying these drivers are supposed to "do wonders" for me doesn't really say much. However, I do expect improvements.
It comes back to the whole PS 2.0 thing Syan. There are some people out there who think that nVidia will find a magic cure for their PS 2.0 in Det 5s, but there are also people (like myself) who believe that the FX series is fundamentally flawed in it's architecture and it will never be competitive with the R3xx series in PS 2.0 due to hardware limitations.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I'm pretty sure I'm right, but only time will really tell when the Det 5's come out and we see what the what is. :cool:

StealthHawk
09-02-03, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Syan
I wasn't trying to be flame bait, I'm just simply saying that we really don't know how much the drivers will improve performance and such. Do we? I think only the guys at Nvidia know exactly whats going to happen. When we look forward to upcoming ATi drivers, we expect good stuff. I personally haven't had any problems with my 5900 yet, so saying these drivers are supposed to "do wonders" for me doesn't really say much. However, I do expect improvements.

Reasonably, we have to look at trackrecords to guess how things in the future will pan out. Every time a huge performance increase is seen on the gfFX line with new drivers, it turns out to be a "simple" software hack.

Greg
09-02-03, 10:08 PM
There is a glimmer of hope for FX owners, but from me, it is purely speculative. I have no inside knowledge of future drivers and I havn't been writing shaders for many months. However, there are significant architectural differences between the FX series and the 9800. The most obvious is that the FX do not like lots of different register access/usage, where as the 9800 are more sensitive to instruction count. So optimising a particular shader for each piece of hardware is possible and necessary to max strengths and min weaknesses of each platform. So the glimmer of hope is that nV may have tweaked their assemblers, optimisers and cg compilers to improve PS performance which originally admitted (no source, but very early press release) would be a challenge and area for work, suggesting it would be more significant than the effort and improvements of the GF3/4. Hopefully the solution is better than hand optimising shaders for each game, which is possibly the current situation (beyond their normal, during development assistance).