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The Baron
08-30-03, 02:39 PM
Well, Best Buy has a Samsung 191T for $600 until September 13. It came out last year, listed for $1600, and has come way down in price.

But... I'm worried about streaking. Response time is supposedly 25ms or around there, but meh, it doesn't inspire confidence. I need an LCD within a year (don't want to take this monitor to college... too heavy), and I'm thinking that this might be a good way to go. But, THE STREAKING! I don't play that many ultra-faced-paced FPS games now that my connection is too poor for UT2003 to be playable most of the time, but still, THE STREAKING!

Right now, I've got a Sony HMD-A400 that can only do 1280x1024 at a decent refresh rate (1600x1200 at 60Hz = instant brain death). So... ideas?

darkmiasma
08-30-03, 05:14 PM
i have the Dell 1900FP which is basically a rebadged Samsung 191T ... i have no problems with streaking/ghosting using my DVI connection

- mike

The Baron
08-30-03, 07:30 PM
YOU GIVE ME HOPE!

anyone else?

ALobpreis
08-30-03, 08:25 PM
Considering the money you will spend, you really SHOULD try the monitor first.
I bought a Hyundai Q15 (15" - 1024x768) (check my topic about 1.5 months ago), and I'm very happy. It seems to have a 16 ms response time, so it's very good. I didn't find any problem for games. In fact, I found more problems using Windows. For example, using lower resolutions or a not-nice effect while moving windows. But that's not the most important thing: it's eye health. :)

Riptide
08-31-03, 07:48 PM
With 25ms displays there will be a slight motion blur. To reproduce this, load up Quake3 and face a wall. Strafe from side to side being careful to keep your eyes on the wall textures.

Both my 2000FP does this as well as the 1900FP.

During real world gaming experiences most of us are focusing on the center of the image, and not the periphery. It is at the periphery where ghosting/streaking is most noticeable.

The Baron
08-31-03, 07:53 PM
During real world gaming experiences most of us are focusing on the center of the image, and not the periphery. It is at the periphery where ghosting/streaking is most noticeable.
Well, there goes that for me. Eyes are sorta wonky, so I would probably find that to be very noticeable.

Riptide
08-31-03, 07:55 PM
FWIW, it's still worth looking at one in the store if that's an option. I'm pretty picky and I haven't had any problems getting used to it. It's really not very noticeable unless you are looking for it, IMHO. :)

CherryPopper
08-31-03, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Riptide
FWIW, it's still worth looking at one in the store if that's an option. I'm pretty picky and I haven't had any problems getting used to it. It's really not very noticeable unless you are looking for it, IMHO. :)
Personally i would Never go back to a crt display again. The IQ, contrast, and brightness of my Viewsonic 19" (also rated at 25 ms with their MVA technology - aka reduced motion blur) blows away any crt display ive seen. I must admit i also Luv Apples displays but id never switch to OS10 to get one :p

Im a big fan of UT2003 and first person shooters in general and they look gorgeous on my Monitor, with no noticible ghosting, shadowing effects. None of my friends who are gamers have ever remarked on shadowing when playing on my rig.

Rytr
08-31-03, 09:57 PM
Have not seen a 19" with less than 25ms rating but a lot of people have them and seem to really like them.

I just picked up a NEC with 16ms rating from Sams last week and so far it has been very good. Tried UT2K3 a couple of night ago and did not experience any ghosting. NEC offers the 16ms rated unit in several models in 17" and you can find them around $400 or less. ViewSonic, Sony, Hitachi, and others are offering 17" LCDs with 16ms rating.

Riptide
09-01-03, 12:14 AM
Try the test I mentioned to see the motion blur. It works with UT2003 as well. In Face3 for instance, face a dark wall and strafe side to side. You should notice a slight blur.

But you know.. If you have to look for it to notice it, is it really a problem? Not for me. :)

And I agree, no more CRTs for me. Ever.

netviper13
09-01-03, 12:41 AM
I have an NEC 1760nx and it has been flawless so far. No dead pixels, no streaking at all in games, and most important no headache after prolonged use (yes I even got headaches with my old CRT at 85hz refresh).

My old monitor was the Dell M990, which was 18" viewable, and I barely notice the 1" downsize from it to the 1760nx.

So I definitely give this LCD my highest recommendation. The only Dell LCD I've had experience with is the 1500fp, so I'm not much help in that department. But right now I'd say either go with a 17" LCD w/ 16ms response time; or if you can stand waiting just wait until the 19" LCDs with 16ms response time hit the market.

Sean P.
09-01-03, 01:17 AM
Keep an eye out for the new Samsung 172X which is supposed to be released in the US this Sept. It has <16ms response time and a host of cool new features. ( Plus the thinnest bezel I have ever seen! ). Hell, it can even mount on the wall right out of the box!

The Baron
09-01-03, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Sean P.
Keep an eye out for the new Samsung 172X which is supposed to be released in the US this Sept. It has <16ms response time and a host of cool new features. ( Plus the thinnest bezel I have ever seen! ). Hell, it can even mount on the wall right out of the box!
I heard about that, heard a 192X was possible, so I decided to wait.

StealthHawk
09-01-03, 02:33 AM
Bleh. I'm still waiting for an 18" or 19" LCD that has <= 20ms response rate :(

Sazar
09-01-03, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Bleh. I'm still waiting for an 18" or 19" LCD that has <= 20ms response rate :(

tru dat... and a good contrast ratio as well...

btw.. out of curiosity... how many of you actually use speakers on an lcd monitor... ?

I was just wondering if they are not a little redundant and push the price a little higher than need be ?

Riptide
09-01-03, 10:23 AM
I doubt many of us here would use speakers built into the LCD. Most of our systems are Uber in most other respects, so why burden yourself with some crappy little stereo speakers that fit into the LCD? Most people here, even if going 2.1, would pick up separates I betcha.

eesa
09-02-03, 07:56 PM
I've talked to many ppl who have those samsungs with the 25ms refresh. (Not the N series, they use a different technology and that isn't the same 25ms) Everyone admits to noticeable streaking, but not distracting streaking. In other words, if you look for it, you'll find it. If you don't look for it, it shouldn't bother you. The DVI connection helps apparently. The 16ms displays (that all use the same display) aren't as good in terms of IQ as the T series samsungs (abeit with slightly better response).

arise
09-06-03, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by eesa
I've talked to many ppl who have those samsungs with the 25ms refresh. (Not the N series, they use a different technology and that isn't the same 25ms) Everyone admits to noticeable streaking, but not distracting streaking. In other words, if you look for it, you'll find it. If you don't look for it, it shouldn't bother you. The DVI connection helps apparently. The 16ms displays (that all use the same display) aren't as good in terms of IQ as the T series samsungs (abeit with slightly better response).

yep, that's the deal right now with 16ms panels, they achieve 16ms only on a defined nr.of colors (256K i think), but the rest (up to true color) are 30ms or above.

One has 2 options:
- either buy a IPS panel (30ms) on a 18" now, or
- wait until faster IPS panels are available

Many users swear that IPS panels w/30ms response are actually faster than MVA or T/N panels w/16ms. They supposedly don't blur that much in games, and have also a wider viewing angle (advantage of IPS).

I am looking at the L1910B (1910P seems to have a 25ms MVA panel), it has a newer S-IPS panel in it.

Other large (18") choices are NEC 1860NX and LG1811B (both same IPS panels).