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View Full Version : Every card has a rough start right?


Syan
09-02-03, 03:41 AM
Reading many other users posts, I see it is obvious that the newer GeForce cards, such as the 5200, 5600, 900, etc., are lacking in the driver department. I'm reading a lot of complaints, and even have a few of my own, but isn't this something you expect from a new card? When I first got the Radeon 9700 Pro about 8-9 months ago, I was steaming the first few days because I couldn't believe how shoddy the drivers were. I was moving up from a GeForce 4 which gave me virtually no problems. The ATi forums were riddled with complain threads and such, much like here. I remember telling me friend that the 9700 was the first video card that I owned where every game I played required some sort of special tweak in order to play correctly.

It took at least 3-5 months after I bought my ATi card for me to finally consider it worth the price, and to gain respect for the company and it's product. I keep seeing other people making comments like "it won't make a difference" when there is talk about the new Nvidia drivers, and it makes me wonder how much crack they must be smoking in order forget that the wonderful ATi cards we have now took much development time after release to be as stable as they are.

Is it not the same exact case for the GeForce FX cards? Or are we all gonna decide to just blame the hardware?

StealthHawk
09-02-03, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Syan
It took at least 3-5 months after I bought my ATi card for me to finally consider it worth the price, and to gain respect for the company and it's product. I keep seeing other people making comments like "it won't make a difference" when there is talk about the new Nvidia drivers, and it makes me wonder how much crack they must be smoking in order forget that the wonderful ATi cards we have now took much development time after release to be as stable as they are.

Is it not the same exact case for the GeForce FX cards? Or are we all gonna decide to just blame the hardware?

gfFX cards have already been out for months...

Unless you are proposing that the hardware was indeed broken in NV30, and that NV31/NV34/NV35 fixed any problems. Of course NV31 and NV34 have both been out for months too. The only case where the hardware is relatively new is NV35, which was still launched in May. Meaning that drivers have been in the works for some time before that.

Sazar
09-02-03, 04:51 AM
certainly there are situations that drivers will improve or fix functionality/performance of the FX lineup...

but there is also the issue of hardware that may not be capable of handling the work done in shader intensive situations w/o perhaps a patch or two released by nvidia/game devs to re-work much of the intensive shader ops in a manner that the card can handle it properly...

fyi... I bought the 9700pro when it first came out... I have had 0 issues with the card other than a minor annoyance with cs (a driver change fixed that)...

rage3d is also a singular ati tech site comprising pretty much a majority of the ati community online who have ati related questions.... therefore you are likely to see it riddled with problems.. :)

saturnotaku
09-02-03, 09:00 AM
There are just some things that drivers will not be able to fix on the NV3x line. While whatever new drivers (50.xx) certainly will bring some performance improvements it's not going to be as large as some people are thinking. The rest is just hardware limitations.

Morrow
09-02-03, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
There are just some things that drivers will not be able to fix on the NV3x line. While whatever new drivers (50.xx) certainly will bring some performance improvements it's not going to be as large as some people are thinking. The rest is just hardware limitations.

If you really understood those "hardware limitations" you would know that those "hardware limitations" are only affecting performance in some cases. And that's exactly here where drivers can do a lot, read: prevent these cases from happening by shuffling shader instructions (The same method ATI used in 3dmark03).

Unfortunately the biggest performance gains will only happen on >nv35 boards since their peak shader power is just slightly below the raw peak shader performance of the 9800 Pro in contrary to the nv30s shader power which is a lot less than both the nv35 and R350.

saturnotaku
09-02-03, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
Unfortunately the biggest performance gains will only happen on >nv35 boards since their peak shader power is just slightly below the raw peak shader performance of the 9800 Pro in contrary to the nv30s shader power which is a lot less than both the nv35 and R350.

Then isn't that a hardware limitation of the NV35 because it doesn't have as much peak shader power?

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
Unfortunately the biggest performance gains will only happen on >nv35 boards since their peak shader power is just slightly below the raw peak shader performance of the 9800 Pro
Uhm, hubba-what?

Since when is the NV35 even close to in the same ballpark as the 9800 Pro in shader performance? That flies in the face of everything that has been discovered about the NV35's shader performance lately. :eek2:

Please explain.

Sazar
09-02-03, 12:32 PM
please have a read @ the article post in this thread (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17363)

gives a decent read about the architecture and raw performance of the nv3x lineup in comparison to the r3xx lineup...

Syan
09-02-03, 01:59 PM
Read this article:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Syan
Read this article:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821
ROFLMFAO~~~~

Please don't point to an Anand article from May 12th as proof about anything! :lol:

Anand was wrong, and still is. :)

Syan
09-02-03, 02:25 PM
Oh it is? How did you come to that conclusion?

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Syan
Oh it is? How did you come to that conclusion?
He was using the optimized "cheater" drivers and never made mention of it. :)

xtremegamer
09-02-03, 04:21 PM
digital you really have a chip on your shoulder about nVidia...almost every post i have read with you involved is you saying something negative about nVidia. do you come here to releave some anger towards us nVidia owners? go over to rage3d if you cant be a bit more positive man...

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by xtremegamer
digital you really have a chip on your shoulder about nVidia...almost every post i have read with you involved is you saying something negative about nVidia. do you come here to releave some anger towards us nVidia owners? go over to rage3d if you cant be a bit more positive man...
Welcome to nVnews, go read me posts on R3D and see what I say over there.... :p

Syan
09-02-03, 06:10 PM
He was using the optimized "cheater" drivers and never made mention of it

Cheater drivers?? I want those drivers if they are that much better...

digitalwanderer
09-02-03, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Syan
Cheater drivers?? I want those drivers if they are that much better...
Don't fret, apparently the latest set of dets has the "application specific optimizations" included by all reports. (I'm talking about the ones available now...not the Det 5 set. :) )

Sazar
09-02-03, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Syan
Cheater drivers?? I want those drivers if they are that much better...

they are excellent drivers for benchmarking with...

don't look for real world gaming improvements though...

StealthHawk
09-02-03, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
If you really understood those "hardware limitations" you would know that those "hardware limitations" are only affecting performance in some cases. And that's exactly here where drivers can do a lot, read: prevent these cases from happening by shuffling shader instructions (The same method ATI used in 3dmark03).

That's ridiculous. If they could just shuffle instructions around and keep IQ the same, why didn't they do that in the first place? Why don't they do that now? We have seen evidence that is not what they are doing. They are replacing code with approximations in 3dmark03. Which does not keep IQ the same, and should not be legal in a synthetic benchmark.

Gargr
09-04-03, 12:41 PM
lol

I love the n00bs

:lol: