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TheOneAndOnly
03-12-12, 01:34 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/122125-how-real-people-will-use-windows-8-on-the-desktop-video

Pretty much sums it up right there. Why is it that I feel like this is going to fail harder than Vista ever did...

six_storm
03-12-12, 02:06 PM
LOL! That's hilarious. I agree that there is a disconnect between being on the desktop and going back to Metro. There's no Start button and unless you can place your mouse on the mid-right, you won't see the hidden "Start" icon. You can press the Windows key but most people don't use it on it's own.

Cute video about the iPad.

Cylphid
03-12-12, 03:42 PM
I tried to come up with something witty about the video and failed, but not as badly as 8 will fail once it meets the average end user.

I foresee roll back coupons, like some oems made available to roll back to XP from Vista.

Q
03-12-12, 04:21 PM
Wait for the full release. Beta means beta. The feedback they are getting will shape the product. I have the feeling that on first boot you're going to get a HUGE two button option screen.

Classic Desktop

Metro Touch Experience

Beta, people. Or, MS wants to commit corporate suicide.

TheOneAndOnly
03-12-12, 04:47 PM
Wait for the full release. Beta means beta. The feedback they are getting will shape the product. I have the feeling that on first boot you're going to get a HUGE two button option screen.

Classic Desktop

Metro Touch Experience

Beta, people. Or, MS wants to commit corporate suicide.

They have already gone on record as saying no to that scenario, at least according to Steven Sinofsky. They are already committed to this path. As in 'escalation of commitment'.

For anyone that doesn't know what that means, research 'Challenger accident' :(

Yes, the CP is beta. But the Metro start screen and Metro apps situation is here to stay. There may be some small usability changes to be made between now and RTM, but this is essentially what we will be using. I've read enough from the offical designers blogs and have been involved in enough past Windows betas to know that they are essentially sticking to this path. They have little choice now...

Cylphid
03-12-12, 05:03 PM
Wait for the full release. Beta means beta. The feedback they are getting will shape the product. I have the feeling that on first boot you're going to get a HUGE two button option screen.

Classic Desktop

Metro Touch Experience

Beta, people. Or, MS wants to commit corporate suicide.

I can't find the article I read, pretty recent. Some MS bigwig stated metro is here to stay and is what we will see in the final product. That was only 2-3 weeks ago.

I'll have the preview installed later tonight - it's funny how not_excited I am to test drive it. :lol:

TheOneAndOnly
03-12-12, 05:29 PM
I have been testing it at work since it came out. Before that, the DP.

Trust me, it pretty much sucks on a desktop computer. The only reason I am learning it is due to the fact that I will have to support it through the consumer IT work I perform.
On a tablet, it is great. Not that I am a big fan of Metro, nor do I think it is better than iOS. It is not IMO.

But using it on a typical desktop computer while trying to actually get work done is extremely painful. And don't get me started on multi-monitors. They really need to sort that out yesterday...

If you are a Facebook or Twitter *****, this is the OS for you. For anyone that wants to get work done, run, don't walk...

Melfranks
03-12-12, 07:25 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/122125-how-real-people-will-use-windows-8-on-the-desktop-video

Pretty much sums it up right there. Why is it that I feel like this is going to fail harder than Vista ever did...

If this guy were savvy enough to know the consumer preview even existed and had actually went to the trouble of installing it, he would have been savvy enough to figure out how it works.
Obviously he was not, and was set up to look like a fool.
A five minute tutorial, and no doubt one will ship with the RTM build, and he would have been completely up to speed.
Even one word, "corners", and he would have figured it out.

six_storm
03-12-12, 07:32 PM
If this guy were savvy enough to know the consumer preview even existed and had actually went to the trouble of installing it, he would have been savvy enough to figure out how it works.
Obviously he was not, and was set up to look like a fool.
A five minute tutorial, and no doubt one will ship with the RTM build, and he would have been completely up to speed.
Even one word, "corners", and he would have figured it out.

You do know that the guy in the video was Chris Pirillo's dad right? Chris installed, sat his dad down and said "Use it".

I'm still excited to get my hands on the final version but I do dread the support I will have to provide my users when they migrate. But then again, we may never migrate them (unless they do it on their own), just say "We don't recommend it".

Melfranks
03-12-12, 07:38 PM
You do know that the guy in the video was Chris Pirillo's dad right? Chris installed, sat his dad down and said "Use it".

That was my point, no one should be using a preview version unless they are savvy enough to use it.
Putting someone in front of an OS which has changed significantly with no instructions whatsoever is ridiculous.

six_storm
03-12-12, 08:01 PM
That was my point, no one should be using a preview version unless they are savvy enough to use it.
Putting someone in front of an OS which has changed significantly with no instructions whatsoever is ridiculous.

I agree that no one should be using unless they know what they are doing. However, I believe that any OS should be easy enough to use that so almost anyone can sit down and eventually figure it out. Hope MS includes some tutorials or help items with Win8.

Shamrock
03-12-12, 10:00 PM
And here is some info from Chris Pirillo's website.

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2012/03/12/why-regular-people-may-not-like-windows-8-consumer-preview/

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2012/03/08/five-reasons-windows-8-could-be-a-success/

And here is something you folks might be interested in, the old start menu

http://www.lockergnome.com/windows/2012/03/09/windows-8-start-menu/

Gregor976
03-12-12, 10:40 PM
Metro?

When I first saw it from a distance, it reminded me of one of the first versions of windows with the huge "icons". Like one step above dos shell. My bios looks and feels a lot slicker than Metro, IMO. UEFI that is. ;)

Redeemed
03-13-12, 12:18 AM
SP1.

Metro on the desktop and laptops that are not touch screen will fail. Worse than Vista, IMO.

I'm quite certain after such a failure the traditional start menu will be re-implemented via a SP. Maybe not SP1, but it'll be re-implemented.

mojoman0
03-13-12, 02:55 AM
It takes a bit to realize it but honestly, metro IS the start menu

TheOneAndOnly
03-13-12, 09:19 AM
If this guy were savvy enough to know the consumer preview even existed and had actually went to the trouble of installing it, he would have been savvy enough to figure out how it works.
Obviously he was not, and was set up to look like a fool.
A five minute tutorial, and no doubt one will ship with the RTM build, and he would have been completely up to speed.
Even one word, "corners", and he would have figured it out.

The point is, when someone buys a computer set up with Windows 8, after using the same UI/UX for 17+ odd years, and finding everything changed around (and not for the better), there is going to be some bad mojo coming from the non-geek users.

Face it, Metro just does not fit on a non-touch environment. It has been cobbled into the keyboard/mouse environment not because it is easier or simpler. It is certainly not to the majority of users. It is a difficult environment to have to do any kind of serious work in.
For instance, I typically use search to open apps or find files that I commonly work with, in this manner; Win-key > type first few letters > enter. I may have to key down a couple of times to select if not the first item.
Doing this, I rarely have to even take my eyes off of my work or can be concentrating on something else while doing that.
Now notice the changes under Win 8. Hitting Win-key takes you to the Start Screen. Typing the first few letters takes me to the search screen. Notice that I have to key down to Apps/Settings/Files and select that, then select from the file I am looking for.
This whole process is extremely jarring, inefficient, and extremely unnecessary compared to the old way. It does not make it simpler nor easier.

Also, notice that all apps you install get placed on the Start Screen (legacy apps are ugly as hell). On a normal install, I have roughly 200 games alone. Many of those install multiple icons. That alone is going to be a major hassle. No more hierarchical or nested folders in Metro. That is going to be one major cluster f*ck to deal with.

I have many more problems worse than this. And I am certainly not the only one to make these complaints. MS is going to have a major problem on their hands when they release this OS.
It may very well succeed in the long run, due to an already built-in monopoly. But that does not make it right.

Cylphid
03-13-12, 09:30 AM
The point is, when someone buys a computer set up with Windows 8, after using the same UI/UX for 17+ odd years, and finding everything changed around (and not for the better), there is going to be some bad mojo coming from the non-geek users.



You're right. I think Mel is thinking of the geeks only. I've had a chance to play with it a bit now and it is fast and a pretty sweet OS so far, but I just can't see it being mass marketed to the "download recipe>print" crowd without major heartaches.

There's a lot of potential win in this on a touchpad, but heck, it took me 2 minutes to figure out how to shut it down :rofl

OEM's will tout this as the fastest/bestest/save_your_soul OS ever for a while and the average user who only powers on, checks email and coupons and shuts down, is going to hate it.

TheOneAndOnly
03-13-12, 09:36 AM
You're right. I think Mel is thinking of the geeks only. I've had a chance to play with it a bit now and it is fast and a pretty sweet OS so far, but I just can't see it being mass marketed to the "download recipe>print" crowd without major heartaches.

There's a lot of potential win in this on a touchpad, but heck, it took me 2 minutes to figure out how to shut it down :rofl

OEM's will tout this as the fastest/bestest/save_your_soul OS ever for a while and the average user who only powers on, checks email and coupons and shuts down, is going to hate it.

Not to mention those who run multiple monitors, or working on multiple spreadsheets or photoshop projects, etc.
Seriously, if you can, run Win 8 on 2-3 monitors. Tell me how long it takes you to pull your hair out.

Cylphid
03-13-12, 09:39 AM
Not to mention those who run multiple monitors, or working on multiple spreadsheets or photoshop projects, etc.
Seriously, if you can, run Win 8 on 2-3 monitors. Tell me how long it takes you to pull your hair out.

I'm going to hook up my second monitor tonight. I haven't read up on it much, but support doesn't look good at the current time. I take it that's an accurate statement?

TheOneAndOnly
03-13-12, 09:58 AM
I'm going to hook up my second monitor tonight. I haven't read up on it much, but support doesn't look good at the current time. I take it that's an accurate statement?

DvJ2HPQw1ew

THis reviewer is being quite charitable.

Cylphid
03-13-12, 10:59 AM
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.




*grabs bottle of Tylenol*

:lol:

EDIT: Using an Asus 23" panel as my second display and as of yet it's actually not too painful. With the exception of narrowing down settings (that video helped btw) it's a very similar experience as win 7

Melfranks
03-13-12, 08:43 PM
The point is, when someone buys a computer set up with Windows 8, after using the same UI/UX for 17+ odd years, and finding everything changed around (and not for the better), there is going to be some bad mojo coming from the non-geek users.

Face it, Metro just does not fit on a non-touch environment. It has been cobbled into the keyboard/mouse environment not because it is easier or simpler. It is certainly not to the majority of users. It is a difficult environment to have to do any kind of serious work in.
For instance, I typically use search to open apps or find files that I commonly work with, in this manner; Win-key > type first few letters > enter. I may have to key down a couple of times to select if not the first item.
Doing this, I rarely have to even take my eyes off of my work or can be concentrating on something else while doing that.
Now notice the changes under Win 8. Hitting Win-key takes you to the Start Screen. Typing the first few letters takes me to the search screen. Notice that I have to key down to Apps/Settings/Files and select that, then select from the file I am looking for.
This whole process is extremely jarring, inefficient, and extremely unnecessary compared to the old way. It does not make it simpler nor easier.


WIN + <type> = search everything
WIN + F = search files
WIN + Q = search applications
etc...

I'm not arguing that the new Start menu is not initially a bit jarring, it just might take a little effort to adjust to it.
I also understand and approve of what Microsoft is trying to accomplish, providing the same general experience whether you are on a phone, tablet, or PC.
I also have no doubt that developers are going to create applications which will make Windows 8 virtually identical to Windows 7 with regards to productivity, including the legacy Start menu.
Of course we also have yet to evaluate the final product, which this preview is definitely not.

Regarding multiple monitors, I've been running dual since I installed the preview, and have no problem whatsoever with it.
WIN + <page up> swaps the task and charm bar between monitors, WIN + <c> brings up the charm bar...
It's really worthwhile learning the keyboard shortcuts.

TheOneAndOnly
03-14-12, 09:09 AM
WIN + <type> = search everything
WIN + F = search files
WIN + Q = search applications
etc...

Mel, I knew about those 10 minutes after they were implemented. You're missing the point...

I'm not arguing that the new Start menu is not initially a bit jarring, it just might take a little effort to adjust to it.

Why must I get used to an unnecessary and annoying distraction?

I also understand and approve of what Microsoft is trying to accomplish, providing the same general experience whether you are on a phone, tablet, or PC.

And why would this be a good thing? Is Apple doing this with iOS and OSX? Not to my knowledge. And yet people get along with all of those just fine. You would not want the iOS UI being forced upon you, and vice versa. Why? Because one does not necessarily work well with the other. Apple knows this. MS obviously hasn't caught on to that fact.

I also have no doubt that developers are going to create applications which will make Windows 8 virtually identical to Windows 7 with regards to productivity, including the legacy Start menu.
Of course we also have yet to evaluate the final product, which this preview is definitely not.

And if such a thing were to be used widespread, it would prove that MS was wrong in forcing us to use Metro on the desktop in the first place. Which would validate my point.
And yes, it is not the final product. But Sinofsky has gone on record as saying that it is essentially feature complete at this point.

Regarding multiple monitors, I've been running dual since I installed the preview, and have no problem whatsoever with it.
WIN + <page up> swaps the task and charm bar between monitors, WIN + <c> brings up the charm bar...
It's really worthwhile learning the keyboard shortcuts.

I know kb shortcuts, and use them. I am not complaining about the shortcuts, I am complaining about the fact that certain modes and usages make hot corners almost useless. Again, bad design. They may of course fix this by RTM. We'll see.
I am also complaining about the oversized interface that we are forced to look at when in desktop mode. It is incredibly distracting and ugly, not to mention that it ruins ones workflow. Again, I don't see the problem they are trying to fix on the desktop.
Also, a great majority of windows users do not use keyboard shortcuts. For many casual users, it is not comfortable to do so.
Changing something for the sake of change alone is bad design. Everyone knows this. While small incremental changes may mean little (for example, changing the color of the windows bitmaps, etc), changes like this need to have a very good reason to exist. And while it may be great for tablets and phones, it is absolutely worthless on a non-touch interface.

Rakeesh
03-16-12, 07:45 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/122125-how-real-people-will-use-windows-8-on-the-desktop-video

Pretty much sums it up right there. Why is it that I feel like this is going to fail harder than Vista ever did...

Pretty much. Windows 8 is a silly UI, but chris pirillo is a little whiny b*tch 9/11 conspiracy theorist who sounds like he's crying all the time.

mullet
03-16-12, 10:51 PM
Pretty much. Windows 8 is a silly UI, but chris pirillo is a little whiny b*tch 9/11 conspiracy theorist who sounds like he's crying all the time.

+1