View Full Version : ATI and Doom3 Benchmarks
StealthHawk
09-11-03, 01:07 AM
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17785&perpage=25&pagenumber=4
Originally posted by gokickrocks
carmack said the arb2 path for doom3 was broken, but fixed now
and at the time, ati drivers were buggy, in all resolutions fps stayed the same...
When and where did Carmack say the ARB2 path for Doom3 was broken? This is the first time I heard this.
I don't think Carmack has ever said anything like that.:confused:
Another Nvidia fanatic i presume...
Times are changing in ATI favour
(Ati for Xbox2, Half life 2 reccomended with ATI etc)
These "kind" of persons that trolling in internet and say stupid lies about ATI probably will stop in future as they will not find any reason to accuse ATI especially if ATI becomes stronger with more Game companies reccomend their cards for their games like VALVE with HL2...and start accusing Nvidia...
I never heard of that as well, it is very unlikly it is as every other card other then the GeforceFX uses it!!
Hanners
09-11-03, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Fotis
I don't think Carmack has ever said anything like that.:confused:
Agreed, if he did I never heard about it.
StealthHawk
09-11-03, 07:18 AM
I think Gokickrocks mistakeningly "remembered" Carmack saying that myself, but I'm not sure. It certainly doesn't sound right to me.
I would have asked in that thread, but it was closed :(
ahhhh, speculation.... what makes the world *spin* .... :rolleyes: ;)
digitalwanderer
09-11-03, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by ragejg
ahhhh, speculation.... what makes the world *spin* .... :rolleyes: ;)
Ain't it great? :lol:
how is it possible that nv3x was "built" for doom yet not only require carmack to write a special path for them but also have such sorry perf on other games that use just as much lighting and other doom like features? I really doesn't make very much sense. Is HL2 _that_ different from doom3? And I still can't figure out my first point - why is a special path required when it was designed to run it in the first place???? No cheesy "cause nv's an idiot" responses plz.
The Baron
09-11-03, 09:09 AM
Is HL2 _that_ different from doom3?
Yes. DX9-level tech versus primarily DX7-level tech.
D3 uses a single shader (or pretty much a single shader), and that is to actually draw the lighting. Now, this is where NVIDIA needs FP16 or FX12--its shader performance, coupled with the fact that the use of that shader is completely constant, would really bring down its total performance.
Where NVIDIA probably demolishes ATI is on the pure DX7 front. I know most of you are thinking, "Why should anyone care?" Remember, a lot of games use primarily DX7-level stuff. So, if Doom 3 uses the OGL equivalent to DX7 and NVIDIA speeds up DX7 as much as possible, NVIDIA would be the logical winner in Doom 3. Problem is, Doom 3 has been delayed and delayed and delayed, so people aren't thinking, "OH SNAP! DOOM 3!" and running out and buying NV35s. They're thinking, "OH SNAP! HALF LIFE 2!" and buying ATI cards.
NV just completely miscalculated where the industry would go this generation.
Deathlike2
09-11-03, 11:05 AM
I don't think he (Carmack) said that at all... (the original poster must've read it wrong somehow)
http://www.bluesnews.com/plans/1/
Carmack's .plan (the latest I think)
NV35 is teh best DX7 card ever!!!:afro:
Joe DeFuria
09-11-03, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Deathlike2
I don't think he (Carmack) said that at all... (the original poster must've read it wrong somehow)
http://www.bluesnews.com/plans/1/
Carmack's .plan (the latest I think)
The "ARB2 is broken on nVidia cards" came from the Tom's hardware p/review with Doom3.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030512/geforce_fx_5900-10.html#doom_iii_special_preview
Due to a bug, ARB2 currently does not work with NVIDIA's DX9 cards when using the preview version of the Detonator FX driver. According to NVIDIA, ARB2 performance with the final driver should be identical to that of the NV30 code.
It's not clear if nVidia or Id was claiming that it was broken. What probably happened, is that nvidia purposely disabled ARB-2 path, so that web-sites couldn't benchmark the NV35 in ARB-2 mode.
And BTW, based on very recent statements from Carmack, the Doom3 ARB2 path still sucks performance wise on NV3x, despite nVidia's "promise". How surprising.
Deathlike2
09-11-03, 01:17 PM
See, THAT'S an important distinction... ARB2 not working on NVIDIA drivers.. not ATI...
People are quick to state "part" of the overall message...
Originally posted by Deathlike2
See, THAT'S an important distinction... ARB2 not working on NVIDIA drivers.. not ATI...
People are quick to state "part" of the overall message...
I spose arb2 not working on nvidia cards can be taken as a general idea of arb2... it can happen :)
gokickrocks
09-11-03, 02:26 PM
my fault
dont think i got the arb2 thing from the tomshardware article as i dont visit the site...cant remember where i got it from...
but i may have misinterpreted it wrong
StealthHawk
09-11-03, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by eesa
how is it possible that nv3x was "built" for doom yet not only require carmack to write a special path for them but also have such sorry perf on other games that use just as much lighting and other doom like features? I really doesn't make very much sense. Is HL2 _that_ different from doom3? And I still can't figure out my first point - why is a special path required when it was designed to run it in the first place???? No cheesy "cause nv's an idiot" responses plz.
Specifically, NV35 was built for Doom3. Ultrashadow.
re: ARB2 path comments. Yes, I remember that the ARB2 path didn't work on NVIDIA cards. I assumed when gokickrocks said the ARB2 path had been broken that it was a misunderstanding. I'm sure NVIDIA purposely disabled ARB2 path in their drivers so it couldn't be benchmarked. I remember their promise of the ARB2 path running at the same speed as the NV30 path as well. One reason why many people believed NVIDIA's claims that shader speed had doubled in NV35 over NV30.
so basically built for doom means we've merely optimized the lighting portion? Well that's dumb. Yes, it's sad that carmack had to write a custom nv30 path. What was wrong with designing hardware to meet standards?
AngelGraves13
09-12-03, 02:48 AM
Nvidia's standards are very low...they will cheat to get ahead.
bkswaney
09-12-03, 03:54 AM
So the 9800 is going to get it's butt kicked in a DX7 game? :confused:
Why? Is the radeon not that great on DX7 type OGL games?
Maybe ATI needs to work on OGL drivers a bit.
It's kinda sad that the best card on the market cannot run DX7
worth a crap. Don't u think?
john19055
09-12-03, 04:27 AM
When the R3.8 drivers come out ,you all will be just as dissapointed as you were with H.L.2 unless they delay it it untill the NV40 comes out.
StealthHawk
09-12-03, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by bkswaney
So the 9800 is going to get it's butt kicked in a DX7 game? :confused:
Why? Is the radeon not that great on DX7 type OGL games?
Maybe ATI needs to work on OGL drivers a bit.
It's kinda sad that the best card on the market cannot run DX7
worth a crap. Don't u think?
Huh?
ATI's drivers aren't optimized for Doom3. Reviewers even commented that performance went down in Doom3 with newer drivers, in addition to the newest Cats at the time being especialy buggy in Doom3. Which is entirely reasonable considering the game was not due to be out for quite some time.
It is also not surprising, as ATI was not notified about the benchmark, nor were they given a developer's build. I have heard that ATI has not been receiving builds of Doom3 either...which leads credence to the rumors that someone at ATI really was responsible for the Doom3 alpha leak a while back. Of course, this might all be rumor, but meh.
Originally posted by bkswaney
So the 9800 is going to get it's butt kicked in a DX7 game? :confused:
Why? Is the radeon not that great on DX7 type OGL games?
Maybe ATI needs to work on OGL drivers a bit.
It's kinda sad that the best card on the market cannot run DX7
worth a crap. Don't u think?
Rumors Rumors and again RUMORS
Until Doom3 OFFICIAL comes out we will only talking with RUMORS and hypes
Do not get hyped so much by others :(
Anyway both Nv35 and Radeon 9800 runs great for as i see it...Both have their advantage and disadvantages
(Ati has it's advantage with with Half life 2 and Dx 9.0 as it seems)...Anyway even more faster cards are coming(Radeon 9900 and Nv38 blabla) so what's the point
By the way do you still play Dx7.0 games???
I think they really do not exist anymore so why do you care so much
AngelGraves13
09-12-03, 03:00 PM
by the time Doom 3 comes out, it'll look nothing like the alpha and will look and run much better on ATI. Nvidia will run it good since it'll make everything into FX12. There's just no competition with ATI's current hardware. Unless Nvidia makes a good nv40, this might be their doom.
digitalwanderer
09-12-03, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by 99 to Life
by the time Doom 3 comes out, it'll look nothing like the alpha and will look and run much better on ATI. Nvidia will run it good since it'll make everything into FX12. There's just no competition with ATI's current hardware. Unless Nvidia makes a good nv40, this might be their doom.
I disagree, I like their mobos and if they ever come out with a decent IDE driver I think they could stay in business a while as a mobo maker. :)
But I'll agree that if the nV40 can't compare to the R420 than nVidia's graphic's division is toast. :cool:
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