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goblin
09-11-03, 02:03 AM
Man did you guys read all the posts on the web on Half Life 2?

It appears the 3Dmark03 was not that far off in terms of predicting performance.

Nvidia cards are getting stomped in direct X 9 and Valve is really pushing this point.

I guess they are pissed caused it took them 5 times the amount of time to optimize the NV path vs the standard Dx9 path. And they had to reduce the precision on the NV path to get decent frame rates.

I'm kind of pissed that I got the 5900 ultra for my kids cpu. Not that its not a great card but it cost so friggin much plus a lowly 9600 pro kills in direct x 9 games. WTF. Nvidia is going to speed it up in drivers but they are just going to reduce precision to do it. Thats bull****. The last good card they made was the GF4 the the new stuff is smoke n mirrors. Come on Nvidia stop ripping us off.

Nvidia better get a new card out fast.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/hl2_performance_preview_part1/

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1862

Miester_V
09-11-03, 02:17 AM
The sad thing is that for most of us "FanATIcs" is isn't really much news at all. This news is aimed for the doubters and ignorant ones out there that refuse to believe anything bad about nVidia. I wouldn't be surprised if they still question the performance issues the nv3x has for DX9. For the rest of us, this just verifies from a credible source (Valve) that nVidia hardware has definitely slipped compared to their previous generation.

silence
09-11-03, 02:25 AM
i know i not buying NV soon, thats for sure. i am more then happy with my ATi card.

i am also more then happy with my Nforce2 mobo...and when NV makes card that is as good in its segment as Nforce2 is in its...ill go back to NV. untill then i am checking prices on ATi 9800pro to make myself very happy man for X-mas....:D

Nemesis77
09-11-03, 02:30 AM
So, Futuremark was right all along.

goblin
09-11-03, 02:39 AM
Well I got the 5900 cause my kid likes counter strike. Nvidia cards do play that game better vs ATI. But **** what a waste of cash. I have a ATI 9700 pro in my rig, slightly clearer text and I don't do counterstrike or q2 anymore.

Dunno Nvidia has slipped big time in my mind. They insult everyones intelligence by the lows they will take fool, cheat etc. Just go out a make a better card next time. Unless they can do a super driver update the FX line is dead for me.

Also I am irritated to find out that:
Valve took 5X more time optimizationing for NVidia hardware than
generic DX9 optimizations?! That's crazy. If I
was a game developer, I'd be $$&@%# as hell. I
mean imagine how much sooner the game could have
come out or how many more bugs or features they
could have addressed before release if they
weren't wasting resources on NVidia. We all could be playing half life now instead of OCT/NOV.

There is so much Nvidia hardware out there that a game develper has no choice but to optimize for a specific card. I don't have a problem with that. But when it slows a games release and ends up slower than ATI by a large margin I feel ripped off big time.



I have kids asking me which card to get. I can't recommend a 5900 ultra anymore as its like 450.00 and is slower than a 160.00 9600 pro. Hell 9800's are only 310.00.

If they lower the price the 5900 could be competitive but at $450.00 its a rip off vs ATI.


Going by pricewatch, it's $2.58 per 1 FPS for the
9600 Pro, in my guestimation of 48 FPS, which is a
far cry better than any of the other cards.

9800 Pro at 4.72 per 1 FPS at 61 FPS

5900 Ultra at 9.16 per at 31 FPS

5600 Ultra at 9.69 per at 13 FPS

5200 Ultra at 13.73 per at 9 FPS

Going by those numbers the 9600 pro is a steal.

Nutty
09-11-03, 03:11 AM
The Optimizations for Half-Life 2 shaders are in the 50 series of drivers which we made available to reviewers on Monday [Sept. 8, 2003].

Oh well, at least these det 50's should be here soon.. see what wonders they contain.. :)

Hellbinder
09-11-03, 03:15 AM
You guys do realize that the Nv40 may resolve all these issues for Nvidia. Of course all the people with The current line up, Including the Nv38 are still not going to be to happy.

Wonder what kind of impact this will have on Nv38 sales?

Nutty
09-11-03, 03:41 AM
Indeed HB, I guess it depends if they've tweaked the nv38 core. They must've known this was gonna happen, they know it sucks as PS2.0. Chucking out a newer card with same performance is gonna look just as bad.

Sounds like Det50 is gonna completely redo the shaders of HL2, though they must have some additional things to bring the speed up equally. Regardless of IQ tho, I think ppl are gonna slag off nv's optimizations anyway.

Bopple
09-11-03, 03:44 AM
Hrmm...as much as expected.
But i'm a bit confused on FX DX8 performance.
Why is it that slow?

Nutty
09-11-03, 03:56 AM
Probably because the number of passes it does is huge compared to dx9 mode, which probably does everything in a couple of passes.

StealthHawk
09-11-03, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by goblin
Well I got the 5900 cause my kid likes counter strike. Nvidia cards do play that game better vs ATI. But **** what a waste of cash. I have a ATI 9700 pro in my rig, slightly clearer text and I don't do counterstrike or q2 anymore.

You certainly shouldn't need a gfFX5900 to play Counter-Strike :eek: A gf3 will play CS fine at 100fps!

Dazz
09-11-03, 07:00 AM
That’s it, a programmable GPU sounded like a nice idea but I knew it wouldn’t work as game developers could have spent more time on their games and could bring them out soon. So much for the cinematic 32bit / 128bit precision gfx if it can only be playable in 16bit. Not only that but it's a waste of nVIDIA's time, they have to make modifications to their drivers all the time. This wastes time on addressing other issues and may make unintentional errors in other games.

saturnotaku
09-11-03, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
A gf3 will play CS fine at 100fps!

You kiddin'? A GeForce2 MX will play CS fine at 100 fps. :eek:

StealthHawk
09-11-03, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
You kiddin'? A GeForce2 MX will play CS fine at 100 fps. :eek:

But not with FSAA and 8xAF :p Especially considering that gf2mx doesn't support higher than 2x AF!

Also, it doesn't stay at 100fps at 1024 in 32bit color. I know, my friend has one and plays at that setting. I think he might even use bilinear filtering :barf:

sxotty
09-11-03, 07:28 AM
I love firingsquads fps/$ graph that is awesome :). I do that when I buy hardware and I am glad that they do too now.

I have to say, I did not like my 9500pro really at all it was a complete dissapointment to me for many reasons, most of all the hype from all the ati fanboys, however the 9800 is living up to my expectations and is doing what I want/expect from it.

btw I did not know gabe newell looked like such a slob lol.

NKVD
09-11-03, 07:30 AM
Thanks god I RMA'd my FX 5900!

druga runda
09-11-03, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by NKVD
Thanks god I RMA'd my FX 5900!

at least someone is happy today :D

Pafet
09-11-03, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by sxotty
btw I did not know gabe newell looked like such a slob lol.

Isn't this how he supposed to look?

digitalwanderer
09-11-03, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
Wonder what kind of impact this will have on Nv38 sales?
I think a safe word to use would be "negatively" at this point... ;)

eesa
09-11-03, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Pafet
Isn't this how he supposed to look?

yeah. Let's see how you would look if you coded all day. Besides, he fits perfectly into that nerdy smart computer geek stereotype. I think it's great.

Gator
09-11-03, 08:47 AM
I've given up on all the FX cards, Nvidia kicked ass with GF4 but now they've lost there way it seems. I'm tired of hearing reports about overheating, flickering, DX9 issues, etc. Furthermore it bothers me to no end that only the 5900 series has 256bit memory bus :rolleyes:

I'm still sticking with my GF4 as long as I possibly can, but when it does come time to upgrade Nvidia better WOW me with the NV40 or I'm heading straight back to ATI. I hated the R8500, but it looks like ATI has corrected many of their mistakes from the past. Now it's NV's turn :nutkick:

Sotos
09-11-03, 08:51 AM
Baahh lets face it

Hl2 does not like Nvidia and detonators even when the 5xxx released it does not really promise anything for these game

I am not expecting any real performance increase even from with just only better BENCHMARK scores:rolleyes:

Anyway is not the Detonators drivers fault with the HL2 in reality
If Valve does not release a patch or fix the problem with the final game version then the Nvidia card owners are S*****and they will have to play these game not as good as the ATI owners...Is simple

plus who knows what new problems may arise with the first 5xxx...
and until Nvidia really fix them with a mature release then we will all singing 'GOODNIGHT"

Do you remember the first 4xxx drivers they SUCKED i am expecting the same problems with the first 5xxx drivers...Fortunately i do not have a Nvidia card anymore :D

nVidi0t
09-11-03, 08:56 AM
LONG LIVE NVIDIA!

*runs and hides*

LiquidX
09-11-03, 09:00 AM
IMO when HL2 comes out and it cant run on any card but an $350+ ATI we should blame Valve and Gabe all the way to the bank by not buying it. This to me is not about Nvida driver cheat in anyway. They should be making a game that can run on any hardware produced in the last 2 years instead of coming out with crap like this and saying basically the hell with its all Nvidia fault we coded HL2 in order to get the best graphics.......to bad it wont run good on your card.............if its Nvida.

It really make me sick that a card I bought last year and I admit I new wouldnt last me forever I now have to throw in damn toilet after it has handled every other game I have thrown at it.

One thing ID has said about Doom3 is that it will run on almost every card. Ah well, one less game to buy this holiday season because I am not upgrading anytime soon for one game.

For those with an ATI, be happy, but us Nv owners should be pissed at Gabe and Vavle for making a game that wont run decent on our card which is the most owned. IMO this is not damn nvidia driver cheat issuse anymore and this more spectacular than the way HF2 looks:mad:

end of anger.

Hank Lloyd
09-11-03, 09:00 AM
I have to say, I did not like my 9500pro really at all it was a complete dissapointment to me for many reasons, most of all the hype from all the ati fanboys, however the 9800 is living up to my expectations and is doing what I want/expect from it.

Holy run-on sentences Batman!