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PreservedSwine
09-12-03, 12:02 AM
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1863

Aren't you glad you held on to that hardware and didn't fall for the marketing hype of the FX!!!

The Ti4600 is still a great card, best bang for the buck out there! Although it lacks DX9 features, it hangs in there quite well since the other nVidia solutions have to fall back to alot of DX8 as well...

I'll be recomending Ti4600's, err Ti4800's and Radeons (over R9500's) now...The Ti4600 is looking like the best budget card out there!

Zenikase
09-12-03, 12:10 AM
My only question is...Why? A Radeon 9600 (Pro) can match or beat the performance of a Ti 4600 and it adds extra functionality for DX9. On top of that, it probably sells for about the same or less than a Ti 4600 does.

DX8 is dead guys, sorry.

Spotch
09-12-03, 12:20 AM
One thing is for sure... My old 9700Pro puts up some pretty good numbers! :D

Too bad they didnt throw a nice 9500Pro into the mix!

eesa
09-12-03, 12:21 AM
hmm..these numbers are even higher than the ones yesterday

volt
09-12-03, 01:16 AM
Dang, I sold my 4600 :(

StealthHawk
09-12-03, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Zenikase
My only question is...Why? A Radeon 9600 (Pro) can match or beat the performance of a Ti 4600 and it adds extra functionality for DX9. On top of that, it probably sells for about the same or less than a Ti 4600 does.

DX8 is dead guys, sorry.

IMO a r9600 isn't that much of an upgrade from a gf4Ti4600. It can be significant upgrade, but if I had owned a gf4 I would spring for a r9700 or r9800.

I feel sorry for people who "upgraded" from a gf4 to a gfFX5600. I wonder what FSAA performance will be like in that game for midrange or lowend gfFX cards, since Valve's FSAA fix for NVIDIA cards uses shader power :eek:

Skynet
09-12-03, 02:14 AM
IMO a r9600 isn't that much of an upgrade from a gf4Ti4600. It can be significant upgrade, but if I had owned a gf4 I would spring for a r9700 or r9800.
For DX7/8 games the 9600pro is not really an upgrade at all. For Half Life2 however it comes into it's own and does what it is designed to do: Pixel Shaders v2.0 aka DX9 aka a significant part of Half Life's eye candy.

StealthHawk
09-12-03, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by Skynet
For DX7/8 games the 9600pro is not really an upgrade at all. For Half Life2 however it comes into it's own and does what it is designed to do: Pixel Shaders v2.0 aka DX9 aka a significant part of Half Life's eye candy.

The r9600Pro does FSAA and AF better than the gf4. So it is an upgrade if you want better FSAA and AF performance. But like I said, it's not really all that worth it. I assume if someone had a gf4Ti4600 they could spend some more money and get a better card than a r9600Pro. The gfFX5600Ultra falls into the same situation in DX7/8 games. It's raw speed is slower than a gf4's, but the gfFX5600Ultra is faster with FSAA and AF.

bkswaney
09-12-03, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
The r9600Pro does FSAA and AF better than the gf4. So it is an upgrade if you want better FSAA and AF performance. But like I said, it's not really all that worth it. I assume if someone had a gf4Ti4600 they could spend some more money and get a better card than a r9600Pro. The gfFX5600Ultra falls into the same situation in DX7/8 games. It's raw speed is slower than a gf4's, but the gfFX5600Ultra is faster with FSAA and AF.


Yep...But if u ever have both speed and killer AA/AF u would never look back. As for me I sold my ti4600 when the 9700 come out.

Gator
09-12-03, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by PreservedSwine
[url]...The Ti4600 is looking like the best budget card out there!

Actually, I'd say the TI4800 is the best, it's about half the cost of a TI4600 right now, and many can overclock to near TI4600 speeds :D. And NewEgg.com has them refurbished for $85us! (currently sold out) :eek: :cool:

nVidi0t
09-12-03, 07:09 AM
I'm actually pretty glad I cancelled my order of a 5900 Ultra and kept my Ti4600.

I'm either waiting for NV40 or going with a 9800 Pro for my next purchase.

Gator
09-12-03, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by nVidi0t
I'm actually pretty glad I cancelled my order of a 5900 Ultra and kept my Ti4600.

I'm either waiting for NV40 or going with a 9800 Pro for my next purchase.

Truer words were never spoken! Go call! ;)

ragejg
09-12-03, 08:05 AM
Why was the GF4 running in DX8.0 mode and not 8.1? GF3 is 8.0... wonder how a ti500 does @ 250/560...

StealthHawk
09-12-03, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by ragejg
Why was the GF4 running in DX8.0 mode and not 8.1? GF3 is 8.0... wonder how a ti500 does @ 250/560...

The DX8.1 codepath uses PS1.4. As you know, the gf4 does not support that aspect of DX8.1, it only supports PS1.3 and 1.2. Therefore, it is relegated to the DX8.0 codepath.

Dazz
09-12-03, 08:24 AM
Is it me or does anyone find it strange how performance didn't decrease as the rez was boosted, yet high end card like the 9800/9700 dropped but fairly large chunks?

ragejg
09-12-03, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
The DX8.1 codepath uses PS1.4. As you know, the gf4 does not support that aspect of DX8.1, it only supports PS1.3 and 1.2. Therefore, it is relegated to the DX8.0 codepath.

o00ps... yep, forgot that point... so, hmm, R200 does 1.4, right? wonder how it handles this situation with it's more efficient shader algorythym and massive (for it's generation) multitexturing capabilities... and, nooo, a radeon 9200 is not properly representative of what I speak of... at all... ;) :rolleyes:

CaptNKILL
09-12-03, 02:58 PM
Are there any benches of the FX and Radeon 9x00 cards running in Direct X 8.0 mode? I want to see how they compair to the 4600 when showing the same level of quality.

I looked at the pictures on the front page and I really dont see what the big deal is. The DX 9 water is more detailed and has more contrast. The reflection is still the same in all 3.

If my 5600 runs in DX 8 ok, I'll be happy until I can afford a 9800np. If it still runs like ass (under 30fps with good graphics settings), then im going to have to buy a new video card sooner than I thought.

LiquidX
09-12-03, 03:50 PM
In light of all this, how does one with a Ti4200-600 who has DX9 on there system revert back to DX8 if it will give them better play at HL2?

or it doesnt really matter because the Ti4200-6 are strictly DX8 code run hardware and even with DX9 only run DX8 compliant without any DX9 features??

Dazz
09-12-03, 03:54 PM
No No No, you got it wrong you NEED DX9 on the computer for DX input for the software, however it all uses DX8 shaders. As such you MUST to have DX9 installed to run the game.

PreservedSwine
09-12-03, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by LiquidX
In light of all this, how does one with a Ti4200-600 who has DX9 on there system revert back to DX8 if it will give them better play at HL2?

or it doesnt really matter because the Ti4200-6 are strictly DX8 code run hardware and even with DX9 only run DX8 compliant without any DX9 features?? hehe, nothing, it's DX8 hardware. DX9 is more than just D3D:)

Sazar
09-12-03, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Spotch
One thing is for sure... My old 9700Pro puts up some pretty good numbers! :D

Too bad they didnt throw a nice 9500Pro into the mix!


hear hear :)

I am very happy with my card and have been so for practically a year (a few more weeks and I celebrate its b'day :D )

Spotch
09-12-03, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Sazar
hear hear :)

I am very happy with my card and have been so for practically a year (a few more weeks and I celebrate its b'day :D )

I got mine on Sept 9th so its older and a bit wiser. :D

TheTaz
09-12-03, 04:13 PM
Well.. I've hung on to my Ti500 all this time.

Still works good since I don't use FSAA and Ansio... and never play above 1024x768.

But with these newer DX9 games... I'm prolly due to upgrade.

That said... I'm prolly jumping ship to ATi.

NOT because of Half-Life 2, Itself.

There has been several factors:

1) Since the 9700 Pro, ATi has gained "a better track record" in their driver department... which was their ultimate weakness.

2) The NV30 blunder. What a POS.

3) nVidia cheating on benchmarks. At first I believed nVidia regarding 3DMark2003... now I'm not so sure. The biggest cheat that gets my goat is the recent "Save higher quality image screenshot" cheat.

4) The Pixel Shader 2.0 / DX9 blunder in the NV3x line. Half-Life 2 is only one app... I wouldn't believe it if it was ONLY one app. But we're talking 3DMark2003 being right, Halo PC, Tomb Raider (the new one) AND Half-Life 2 showing all the SAME facts.

5) Doubting The Detonator 50's will fix the problem. (I believe it's a GPU fix)

6) The ridiculous price of FX's / performance.

7) The suspiscion that the NV36 / 38 will suffer the same problems. (I'm thinking NV40 will be the earliest fix possible... and that won't be until next year... and possibly maybe even too late for NV40... might be an NV45 fix)

So bottom line... I plan to upgrade in November (For DAoC ToA of all things). I will get the best bang for buck GPU out there, regardless of the company. Unless some miracle happens with nVidia (Like nV40 with PS 2.0 fix available at a reasonable price)... I'm getting an ATi card.

Don't get me wrong... I've had nVidia cards since the TnT2 Ultra. They have served me well. But If I shell out $200+ (My Ti500 was $300+) for a card... it better last.

Regards,

Taz

euan
09-12-03, 05:05 PM
I got my 9700 pro on Aug 31st 2002 (1 year and 12 days ago). Sadly it seems as though it's dying. I'm getting lockups after 30 seconds in games now... Been trying to solve it for about 2 weeks now. The last attempt to save it is to re-seat the the heatsink with some artic silver (it's curing right now as I type :D). I thought it would last for ever. It's truely the most impressive 3d card I've ever had. Maybe even more so than the first time I ran a voodoo 1 demo on my PC.


:(


Oh well new 9800XT whatever to look forward to in the near future...

Hellbinder
09-12-03, 05:28 PM
One thing cannot be denied.

The GF4 TI Line (all of them) kicks major ASS. Could you imagine If Nvidia would release a special edition Ti 4600 with a 256bit memory bus and No other changes??

Other than Dx9 support that would make for a fine Graphics card even today. Its FSAA scores would go way up. Or imagine if they gave it the 9600pro treatment... Remanufacture it at .13u go for about a 400mhz Core speed and toss some faster ram.

Spiffy. would be nice to see what it performed like just for kicks.