View Full Version : NVIDIA Kills TR AoD benchmark !
Originally posted by Hellbinder
OpenGL Will be a major payer in the industry until the Day Carmack Dies
Carmack picked up a d3d manual, said wtf, and went back to his ogl hacking. Good for him.
Originally posted by saturnotaku
You got that right. We had to beat fan ATIcs off with a stick when the supposed GeForce3-killing 8500 hit the streets. Sure it could get 1000 pos higher in 3dmark, but it couldn't play games for diddly. Ask digitalwanderer, he'll regale you with many a tale of his exploits with his 8500.
that really shows you where nVidia has gone recently...
*points towards the garbage can next to him*
Originally posted by eesa
OGL is absolutely amazing. In general it's more stable, better looking, less cpu dependent, not platform dependent, and it's not M$. I care mostly about the first three, but the last two are important pirks. Just look at any game that has both implementations. The OGL renderer is ALWAYS better. Even with the original UT, with that hacked together OGL renderer, fps was still more stable than D3D. I'm sorry, but in this case, I can't even repect your opinion. It's really sad that D3D seems to dominate these days. It's because of M$ pumping all this money into the program and manipulating developers. These days D3D is beginning to become more advanced than OGL, but back then D3D was a piece of garbage and yet somehow with all the cash M$ has it has managed to brute force introduce it and have it be used.
You are waaaaaaaay off base eesa. There are many reasons DX dominates, but MS has not had to bend devs arms around to get them to use it. I have been in development for a long time, and Microsoft has never contacted me about using DX. It was my choice. Purely a marketing choice.
DX solved a lot of problems for developers. The actual look of a game is up to the developer, it can look better on either API. That is just a programming problem, not an API issue.
DX gained momentum as it comes with every Windows box, and has support for every device in the gaming system. It's not just a graphics API.
Today, DX is just as stable as OpenGL is.
I'm not in this business to make a political statement. I just want to feed my family and DX does a good job of allowing me to do that.
Originally posted by serAph
While yer at it smarty - why dont you look for a comparison between the QuadroFX3000 and the FireXGL equivalent that ATi butchered and offered in contest to it. It might blow your fragile little mind.
The FireGL X2 256 costs less than half of a Quadro FX 3000 and yet it delivers almost equal performance in most tests and will surely outperform it in shader intense work in the future.
I find it hard to see anything special about a 2000 USD videocard outperforming a 900 USD videocard by 20 % or so, or actually I find it a pretty uninteresting difference considering how much you're paying for it.
Originally posted by AnteP
The FireGL X2 256 costs less than half of a Quadro FX 3000 and yet it delivers almost equal performance in most tests and will surely outperform it in shader intense work in the future.
I find it hard to see anything special about a 2000 USD videocard outperforming a 900 USD videocard by 20 % or so, or actually I find it a pretty uninteresting difference considering how much you're paying for it.
nah dude - it friggen embarasses it. Did you read that XBit labs comparison? Also the CineFX addon is SWEEET in 3dsMax.
its more like 40-70% difference and in a LARGE amount of tests too - not just 2 or 3 out of 5....
its like 6 out of 7.
reever2
09-17-03, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by serAph
nah dude - it friggen embarasses it. Did you read that XBit labs comparison? Also the CineFX addon is SWEEET in 3dsMax.
its more like 40-70% difference and in a LARGE amount of tests too - not just 2 or 3 out of 5....
its like 6 out of 7.
que? http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=62&page=22
The quadro 3000 is a total waste of money unless you need the extra features, since it gives a 2% increase from the 2000 yet adds hundreds of bucks to the price because of features no normal person would use
ChrisRay
09-17-03, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by reever2
que? http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=62&page=22
The quadro 3000 is a total waste of money unless you need the extra features, since it gives a 2% increase from the 2000 yet adds hundreds of bucks to the price because of features no normal person would use
Since when have professional graphic cards been designed with the "normal" user in mind.
In what respect? I'm no DX expert, so I dont know, but as far as fragment processing goes, you can get more power in GL, if you're prepared to use NV's own extension. The ARB version is probably identical to DX9.
NV's own Vertex Shader extension again has more power, due to full dynamic branching, which is not due until VS3.0 IIRC.
The only part I think GL currently lacks is floating point render targets, though I could be wrong. NV currently only allow floating point textures of type rectangle, whereas ATI offer much better support. But I dont think this is ARB'ified yet.
But seriously, if you can list the differences I'd be interested and greatful.
EDIT: Meant VS3.0 not PS3.0
Actually. This argument is in retrospect to the Old OpenGL 1.4 compared to DX 9.0 era. Before the Shader 2.0 equiv was put into OpenGL.
Of Course that old complaint is a bit dated. I am curious. Does OpenGL have an arbed vertex shader 2.0?
Not yet, there is ARB_VertexShader coming soon, which is part of GLSlang. It has access to texture data from within the vertex shader, so its obviously not the same as NV/ARB_VertexProgram.
Originally posted by serAph
nah dude - it friggen embarasses it. Did you read that XBit labs comparison? Also the CineFX addon is SWEEET in 3dsMax.
its more like 40-70% difference and in a LARGE amount of tests too - not just 2 or 3 out of 5....
its like 6 out of 7.
yes I've read xbit labs report, I also read at amazon and thg and they didn't show such insane differences except in Maya which ATi currently has no driver for
Hellbinder
09-17-03, 05:33 PM
1. D3D is not going to be phased out.
2. Linux will never be openly adopted as a open source. There are 1,000 reasons.
3. It would be flat out DISASTER for OpenGL to become the Game Development standard in its current Form.
4. For OpenGL to become the Standard and pimary used Game Api the Following need to happen.
A. Microsoft Gets Taken out by terrorists (Worldwide) all at the same time.
B. Linux gets Taken over by someone and Open Source ends.
C. The ARB Board takes over OpenGL completely and all Proprietary Code is 100% done away with. The Standard (whatever it is) RULES ALL.
If anyone has any other ideas they are on Crack, Meth, Black Jake, Popy seeds, Ludes, Hair Spray and Laundry Detergent.
reever2
09-17-03, 05:34 PM
Since when have professional graphic cards been designed with the "normal" user in mind.
Sorry, i didn't notice the 4 posts above me(and the one which i replied to) were talking about normal users or mainstream cards :rolleyes:
ChrisRay
09-17-03, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by reever2
Sorry, i didn't notice the 4 posts above me(and the one which i replied to) were talking about normal users or mainstream cards :rolleyes:
I fail to see any logic in discussing professional graphics cards in such way that it would discuss the benefits of a "normal" user. As they dont correlate At all.
You were implying that Normal users wouldnt pay the extra hundred dollars for those features anyway. But as I have clearly stated. Thats irrelevent as a normal user wouldnt buy a professional graphic card anyway.
Why Discuss professional graphic cards. and then say that the feature set wouldnt benefit the normal user. Are you suggesting that "normal" users for Professional based graphic cards would not benefit from the extra feature set?
Because if so. I dont see that as a very logical assessment.
StealthHawk
09-17-03, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by serAph
hey you never know around here. Well - actually, I bet if one did a #of posts vs. company preferance tally, the higher posts numbered ppl would probably prefer ATi atm...
...even back when GeForce 3's were new and stuff, was this place so anti-nvidia?
No, this place was vastly pro-NVIDIA up till the delayed and disappointing NV30 benchmark results. And the rest...is history.
StealthHawk
09-17-03, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Nutty
It makes sense in the long run. Wouldn't it be great if M$ integrated OpenGL into DX. There'd be no-more bitching about which API to use.. And M$ and the ARB could all agree on future directions. Standards are good. Standards are even better when 1 company doesn't have absolute control.
Didn't they try to do something like this several years back? Farenheit.
Miester_V
09-17-03, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
No, this place was vastly pro-NVIDIA up till the delayed and disappointing NV30 benchmark results. And the rest...is history.
So I take it that this place will be called vganews.net in the near future? ;) :D
Hellbinder
09-17-03, 10:28 PM
Actually VPUnews or somehting like that would be very cool.
Especially with XGi introducing what looks like a reasonably competative product line. That makes it a 3 horse contest.
I just hope that XGI has nice FSAA and good Quality. Im a little leary after the "Texturbo" days.
Why Did Admin delete all my posts?
Miester_V
09-18-03, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by lukar
Why Did Admin delete all my posts?
I ask that question all the time...but mostly in my mind. I don't dare question their mod skills in public. Well, not yet at least. :rolleyes2
Deathlike2
09-18-03, 12:28 AM
Why Did Admin delete all my posts?
Beats me... but most of the posts you made on this thread were pretty "out there" and off topic...
Also, when you just state things out of thin air (in other words, provide no proof)... well.. there you get the idea...
lmao - just payed my first indepth visit to Rage3d's forums and saw maaannny familiar faces there - only with like 8x as many posts and stuff. I see where the anti-nvidia ppl came from... I dont think i have anything to say @ rage3d... and wont until I own an ATi card... so for the time being, Ill stick to my other forums.
Deathlike2
09-18-03, 12:35 AM
Rage3D is more than 2x extreme when it comes to NVidia-ATI issues... at least here and Beyond3D.. some ACTUAL discussion takes place...
It makes you appreciate what the education provides on different forums (this includes Anandtech, HardOCP, Tom's Hardware... etc etc).. some are off base.. and some are on the money...
digitalwanderer
09-18-03, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by lukar
Why Did Admin delete all my posts?
It's part of their "thread-cleaning", they occassionally shut down some threads and go thru and delete what they feel to be useless/redundant stuff.
As hard as it is to believe, I lose an awful lot of good posts that way. :(
(BUT I'M NOT COMPLAINING!!!! Mods/admins can do that and nVnews is quite up front with the fact that they do....but I also trust their discretion and have never had a problem with them pulling down something that I feel should stay up, they use good judgement here. :) )
Originally posted by serAph
lmao - just payed my first indepth visit to Rage3d's forums and saw maaannny familiar faces there - only with like 8x as many posts and stuff. I see where the anti-nvidia ppl came from... I dont think i have anything to say @ rage3d... and wont until I own an ATi card... so for the time being, Ill stick to my other forums.
A lot of us have had cards from both IHV's, there's still no place as good as Rage3D for finding out ATi info just like there isn't any better place than nVnews to keep abreast of nVidia....why is it so surprising that the serious enthusiasts belong to both?
Originally posted by Deathlike2
Rage3D is more than 2x extreme when it comes to NVidia-ATI issues... at least here and Beyond3D.. some ACTUAL discussion takes place...
I know the signal-to-noise ratio ain't always the best at Rage3D, but again I will say that there is no place better to get ATi information from. (Well, 'cept mebbe me....but that's where I get most of mine too. ;) )
The Baron
09-18-03, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
(BUT I'M NOT COMPLAINING!!!! Mods/admins can do that and nVnews is quite up front with the fact that they do....but I also trust their discretion and have never had a problem with them pulling down something that I feel should stay up, they use good judgement here. :) )
Gracias. Nobody here deletes anything that has content--if you want to complain about NVIDIA and have a decent reason for posting about it, knock yourself out. It's the spam and the personal attacks and the fanboy bashing ("dude nv suxxors omfglolz ati roxxors my boxxors") that will get stuff deleted/closed.
digitalwanderer
09-18-03, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Gracias. Nobody here deletes anything that has content--if you want to complain about NVIDIA and have a decent reason for posting about it, knock yourself out. It's the spam and the personal attacks and the fanboy bashing ("dude nv suxxors omfglolz ati roxxors my boxxors") that will get stuff deleted/closed.
Yup, and you and the rest of the staff here at nVnews has done a great job at keeping the peace while not interrupting the dialogue. My hat really is off to you and the rest of the folks here at nVnews, I don't envy you your jobs right now. (I HATE being a mod at places you actually have to work at and not just have the powers to abuse for fun....see why they don't give me more powers at EB now? ;) )
I think this is the only place that I don't mind me posts being wiped out on, but you folks have earned my trust & respect in that department....weird. :eek2:
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