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goblin
09-20-03, 12:03 PM
Well it would take a lot. Not saying its not possible.

For me the list would be:

1. Admit they cheated. (Its never going to happen.)
2. Admit the new quality rules were just words with little meaning. Ok don't think that will happen either.
3. The next card is going to have to be damn fast, much faster than ATI.
4. NO MORE of this driver cheating crapola.
5. Clean up the 2D output. Make some guidelines for card makers to stick to. No cheap filters which blur the output. The 2D text quality makes almost as much difference to me as 3D. I read alot.
6. Try to stop taking up 2 case slots
7. Be more active in the newsgroups.
8. Get some damn integrity back.
9. Fire the CEO. This may seem harsh but big companies do this in order to show stockholders that they really mean business. Nvidias talk has no bite. They need to show me they are serious not talk about it.

People are still buying Nvidia cards even though they are 2x slower in ps2.0. Once they figure out they have been had, and they will. It will hurt nvidia down the road. They should have taken the high road and counted the losses but saved integrity. Instead they pissed off tons of people that wasted money this round. Next round its going to come back and bite them. "Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me". I don't intend on getting fooled twice ya bastards.

They will have to double ATIs next card plus clean up the company.

A tall order for the them to fill. Am I being too harsh?

digitalwanderer
09-20-03, 12:05 PM
A bit of honesty, a bit of integrity, and some signs of ANY kind of respect for the community.

I don't think it will happen. :(

phial
09-20-03, 12:06 PM
i think the real question is:


"What will make all teh fanboys disappear?"


thats what I would love to know

digitalwanderer
09-20-03, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by phial
i think the real question is:


"What will make all teh fanboys disappear?"


thats what I would love to know
Which ones? (Not individually, just which side is currently annoying ya. ;) )

mrsabidji
09-20-03, 12:34 PM
Nvidia wouldn't have to win me back, they never lost me. They never had me actually : it's just a brand. Don't expect them to admit anything, they don't have to be honest. They have to sell the more card they can, whatever it takes. I don't know where you guys had the idea Nvidia or ATI had to be honest towards you, it's not their business.
The real question is : What would the next nvidia card have to be like for you to buy it ?
My answer is : fast, providing high IQ and Dx9(9.1)/OGL1.5 compliant.

mrsabidji

phial
09-20-03, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Which ones? (Not individually, just which side is currently annoying ya. ;) )


just fanboys in general

digitalwanderer
09-20-03, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by phial
just fanboys in general
Fanboys will be as long as there are newbies learning hardware, and there are ALWAYS gonna be new people learning hardware....it's just an over-enthusiastic stage.

They do grow out of it, usually. ;)

goblin
09-20-03, 01:17 PM
I take it you have very few morals.

I don't know about the rest of you but personally I don't like con men, liars, used car salesmen etc. The companies actions actually bother me much more than the lack of performance. Actually if enough people were pissed off a class action suite could be filed. I don't think it would be too hard to prove the intentional deceit.

So how exactly were the suckers that bought the 5900 suppose to know it would suck ass. They bought into the lies.

How far would a company have to go before you would say no?

If they had a child porno ring would it matter?
If they funded suicide bombers killing american?

Or is it you don't card what they do as long as "you think" the product is good. Looks can be deceiving.

I mean you must have a line that you draw somewhere in the sand.

My wife won't see any more Johnny Dep movies after she read he is anti-american. There goes the movie I wanted to see :(


Originally posted by mrsabidji
Nvidia wouldn't have to win me back, they never lost me. They never had me actually : it's just a brand. Don't expect them to admit anything, they don't have to be honest. They have to sell the more card they can, whatever it takes. I don't know where you guys had the idea Nvidia or ATI had to be honest towards you, it's not their business.
The real question is : What would the next nvidia card have to be like for you to buy it ?
My answer is : fast, providing high IQ and Dx9(9.1)/OGL1.5 compliant.

mrsabidji

LordSpawn
09-20-03, 01:27 PM
Refund the $82 restock fee i had to pay followed up by an apology. People make mistakes because were only human but it takes a real person to admit their own mistakes.

TheTaz
09-20-03, 01:27 PM
Have a product that is FULLY DX9 compliant that's as fast as the competition, if not faster, priced competitively with the competition (price / performance), and doesn't sacrifice ANY quality to compete (performancewise).


Comments on things you listed:

1. Admit they cheated. (Its never going to happen.)

Right... never going to happen.

2. Admit the new quality rules were just words with little meaning. Ok don't think that will happen either.

Right again... never going to happen.

3. The next card is going to have to be damn fast, much faster than ATI.

Not really... just priced correctly according to Performance vs. competition.

4. NO MORE of this driver cheating crapola.

Agreed, however, companies will always TRY, if in trouble. I'm hoping that since nVidia got caught so much, lately, that the cheating will, at least, be suspended for quite a while.

5. Clean up the 2D output. Make some guidelines for card makers to stick to. No cheap filters which blur the output. The 2D text quality makes almost as much difference to me as 3D. I read alot.

Never had a problem with this. Their 2D is ok... but then again... for a top o the line $500 product.... I agree it also should be top notch.

6. Try to stop taking up 2 case slots

I don't really care about that. But some do /shrug. Sometimes trying to push the envelope of technology, stuff like that can't be helped.

7. Be more active in the newsgroups.

Don't care about that either. Just promotes fanboism / hype / spin.

8. Get some damn integrity back.

Putting out a product like I first listed, and suspending the cheating should go a long way towards that.

9. Fire the CEO. This may seem harsh but big companies do this in order to show stockholders that they really mean business. Nvidias talk has no bite. They need to show me they are serious not talk about it.

Not gonna happen. And if anything... I'd Target their Marketing guy instead.... but I hate marketers in general to begin with! :p Marketers, Politicians, Lawyers, and Religious fanatics are the scum of the earth!!! :D

Regards,

Taz

oqvist
09-20-03, 01:56 PM
1. Stop with your damn cheating drivers or at least let the user disable them.
2. Copy ATI with what they are doing and follow specs.
3. Surpass ATI in term of Image quality
4. Surpass ATI in term of Performance
4. Stop lying and deceive people.
5. Make NV40 a great competition to ATIs R420 and I may buy the NV50. Need the NV40 to gain any confidence in nVidia again.
6. Buy back Catalyst team ATI bought over from nVidia.
7. Continue and improve your driver support for stereo3D glasses.

nVidia must surpass ATI with a fair margin in speed and image quality or otherwise I will stay away from nVidia as long as I can. Itīs just not safe buying a nVidia card these days since you never know what you are going to get and with their current policy I hell not want to sponsor them.

SmuvMoney
09-20-03, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by mrsabidji


{most of post clipped for clarity}

The real question is : What would the next nvidia card have to be like for you to buy it ?
My answer is : fast, providing high IQ and Dx9(9.1)/OGL1.5 compliant.

mrsabidji

Pretty much my words exactly. If nV were to do this legitimately and put the present fiasco of NV3x/DX9 behind them, I would definitely consider an nV card again. Until then, I will consider ATi and the other upcoming competition (XGI, S3) for my next purchase, whenever that is.

-=DVS=-
09-20-03, 02:02 PM
Nvidia should die and create new company :lol: called 3DFX

dan2097
09-20-03, 02:40 PM
Create a competitivly priced card ~10% faster than the competing radeon while yielding comparable image quality and without fiddling benchmarks.

TBH I would prefer a company to be moral but im not going to spite myself to get at the company. Im just too cheap :p

Sphinx
09-20-03, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by -=DVS=-
Nvidia should die and create new company :lol: called 3DFX

My heart will never die - 3 dfx

Ruined
09-20-03, 03:29 PM
1. No functionality problems in new card. No flickering, scrolling noises, or any other crap like that in general.

2. Full FP32 shader precision all the time, at 60fps+ in games that use it

3. Better AA modes

4. Dump the turbine cooler for something that works just as well and is dead quiet like MSI's Twin Flow.

5. When you say you are going to integrate 3dfx's technology into a board, and name the board after them, don't disgrace their name by releasing a slow pile of ****.

(Optional/would be nice) - Get a tech support team and possibly even some Nvidia-badged cards so if I have a problem I actually have someone to talk to who knows wtf is going wrong with the hardware. The support email I sent to MSI about the scroll noise months ago still has not been answered. The fact that ATI's driver team is making themselves far more available than Nvidia's on an Nvidia site is embarassing as well.

euan
09-20-03, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by oqvist

6. Buy back Catalyst team ATI bought over from nVidia.


ATI didn't buy them. The team (which co-incidently are not connected to the drivers) walked out because of the design decisions NV made regarding the NV30, long before it actually existed. They needed a contract and got one at the newly revived ATI. The Catalyst team (is that the right name? I don't think so) are a European Developer support team based in the UK (i think that's right). There's a webpage somewhere.

particleman
09-20-03, 04:22 PM
All they have to do is make the better graphics card. Even though nVidia has done some pretty objectionable things the last year or so, things like corporate morality don't play any role in my video card buying decisions. When I buy my graphics cards I just buy the best card for me. And when I mean better graphics card I mean more than just a few FPS better in some benchmarks, I want more attention paid to image quality.

At the moment they wouldn't even really have to win me back since I am using a 5900 (though I am disappointed in it). What it would take to make me 100% ATi is better compatibility with old games.

Paul
09-20-03, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by goblin
My wife won't see any more Johnny Dep movies after she read he is anti-american.

HAHA. Oh god, you've just made my day.

The Baron
09-20-03, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Paul
HAHA. Oh god, you've just made my day.
Same here. That whole post made my day. I love how people forget that the goal of every corporation is to get your money through any means possible, and that includes acting all Buddy-Buddy with you.

lukar
09-20-03, 05:20 PM
I'm thinking about any Nvidia product line which was good?

PreservedSwine
09-20-03, 05:33 PM
Frankly, all it would take is the better product....I could really care less about who makes it...

Miester_V
09-20-03, 06:02 PM
It'd be funny if they said something like

"We got owned by ATI that time. But from now on, we look foward to 'owning' them." :lol:

LiquidX
09-20-03, 06:40 PM
I am not as easy to forget about a company that has hit a stumbling block as some. Ahh my beloved Sega systems the world is just not right without one. :( I dont belive this issue was intentional. Infact I think this will improve Nvidia 10X over.

Anyway, all they have to do is create a product better than the competition for me. As long as every site says its a go I will give there next card a go. And this better be soon I need a new card.;)

oqvist
09-20-03, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by euan
ATI didn't buy them. The team (which co-incidently are not connected to the drivers) walked out because of the design decisions NV made regarding the NV30, long before it actually existed. They needed a contract and got one at the newly revived ATI. The Catalyst team (is that the right name? I don't think so) are a European Developer support team based in the UK (i think that's right). There's a webpage somewhere.

Oh I thought ATI payed better money from them :) So nVidias most competent people did a really smart move andleft the ship before it sunk and put the last torpedo in it by going over to ATI.

I donīt know what their name was but I thought that it was people that worked with nVidias detonator drivers that jumped over to ATI and started with the Catalyst drivers?

This is much from rumours and hearsay so itīs just plain speculations from my side :)