Nv40

[schuey74]

JJ123, I read back on all your posts and you seem to be stuck on the point that you think Nvidia is doing a good job optimizing for the NV3X cards and keeping those owners happy. But I have not argued with you on this point. Yes they are doing everything they can and that's great because honestly they have no choice.

However, this is not a point for arguing that Nvidia's hardware is not inferior. There really is no nice way to say it, Nvidia's NV3X design was severely flawed from the get go and they've been patching it ever since the fiasco that was the 5800u. Fixing some stuff in hardware with new releases like NV35, NV36, & NV38 and optimizing all they can via their drivers. Their 4x.xx drivers were all a bunch of hacked up pieces of garbage that threw Nvidia's reputation down the toilet. The 5x.xx drivers were supposed to be the saviour and do seem to be much better, but they're not the miracle Nvidia's been promising.

What Lars made mention of in Aquamark has already been shown to be a gamma issue and ATI is indeed rendering everything accurately. Just think about it, if ATI followed DX9 specs to the letter then why would they have to hack anything to get it working properly.....the answer is they don't. You can't compare glitch in a game here or there to DX9 shader performance that has been proven over and over to be dismal compared to the R3XX series.

I'm glad Nvidia is doing everything they can so games perform well on their flawed hardware, but you must come to the realization that it is flawed hardware and you are going to have to wait for optimizations on every DX9 app. that comes out in order to get decent performance.

There is just no grounds for saying that Nvidia's NV3X generation is anywhere near that of ATIs R3XX and it becomes more and more obvious as time goes on. You can't change hardware that has already been produced so you just can't change this fact, no matter how you look at it.

[Fotis]

Originally posted by Uttar
TSMC won't take that intermediary step AFAIK. The R450, if such a part even exists and I'm most doubtful of that, would thus still be on 0.13u.


Uttar
TSMC to Ramp Up 0.11 Micron Production in Q2 2004 (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20031101041756.html)

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally posted by Fotis
TSMC to Ramp Up 0.11 Micron Production in Q2 2004 (http://http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20031101041756.html) That doesn't mean ATI will go 11nm. 13nm has also been long there, and ATI are just starting to use it for R4xx

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by jimmyjames123
In fact, it was Lars who made mention of some potential issues with ATI's image quality here.
Just a quicky, but Lars isn't exactly what I'd call a reliable source of information. ;)

[Fotis]

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
That doesn't mean ATI will go 11nm. 13nm has also been long there, and ATI are just starting to use it for R4xx


ATI Technologies' CEO Talks About Transition to 0.11 Micron (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030929004713.html) :angel2:

[nobie]

I think both NV40 and R420 will be 130nm, and the refreshes will be 110nm. R500 should be 90nm.

[photophreak314]

Everybody who is interested in the state of 3D affairs, go to:


http://www.penstarsys.com/editor/tech/graphics/nv_ati_dx9/index.html

it is a VERY detailed article on ATI and NVidia architecture differences and what is to come in NV40, R400.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by photophreak314
Everybody who is interested in the state of 3D affairs, go to:


http://www.penstarsys.com/editor/tech/graphics/nv_ati_dx9/index.html

it is a VERY detailed article on ATI and NVidia architecture differences and what is to come in NV40, R400.
Sorry, no. That particular article is being pretty thoroughly shredded in a couple of three, four forums that I know of and even the author of the piece has stated he'll be re-writing it after learning the real facts. :)

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally posted by Fotis
ATI Technologies' CEO Talks About Transition to 0.11 Micron (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030929004713.html) :angel2: Was talking high-end wise.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally posted by nobie
R500 should be 90nm. That would be 2 transitions in less than a year, even if R500 comes in H105. Pretty impossible imho. R500's mainstream or maybe it's refresh could be 90nm though.

[Fotis]

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
That doesn't mean ATI will go 11nm. 13nm has also been long there, and ATI are just starting to use it for R4xx
That doesn't mean they won't either.
First of all ATI has been using 0.13 since april(RV350).
ATI chose not to use 0.13 for their high end because 0.15 was cheaper and enough to beat nvidias every high-end 0.13 offering.
ATI's R450 might not be on 0.11 but from the look of it there are strong hints.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Ok I needed to add 'imediatly' and 'high-end' in that sentece... :bleh:

[nobie]

Originally posted by Nebuchadnezzar
That would be 2 transitions in less than a year, even if R500 comes in H105. Pretty impossible imho. R500's mainstream or maybe it's refresh could be 90nm though.

ATI isn't the one making the transition, TSMC is. They should already be mass producing 90nm ICs in 2004 (risk production is happening now I believe).

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Originally posted by nobie
ATI isn't the one making the transition, TSMC is. They should already be mass producing 90nm ICs in 2004 (risk production is happening now I believe). Look at Fotis' link, it says TSMC will begin mass production 11nm in Q2 04, so i doubt 90nm will happen in 04, atleast not for bigger chips like high-end gpus, except maybe in very late 04 and even then i doubt ATI/Nvidia will take the risk and use it for the high-end. And thus I don't think R500 will use it just because of process maturity (Considering it's supposed to come < late Q205) If it comes later, then it will maybe use it though. But considering the 18 month product cycle and R420 coming in Q1-2 04, then it might be possbile. And I just realized that you meant R500 coming in H205 from the beginning and I just said a big pile of useless BS here :D .


:bleh:

[Hanners]

Originally posted by nobie
ATI isn't the one making the transition, TSMC is. They should already be mass producing 90nm ICs in 2004 (risk production is happening now I believe).

That doesn't mean that ATi have to change that quickly - TSMC will still have the capacity to produce parts at different sizes.

[Carbon Unit]

There will not be a 0.11u die the NV40 will use a 0.09u fabed by IBM, it will alos support PCI Express, and be released along side the Prescott 0.09u

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Carbon Unit
There will not be a 0.11u die the NV40 will use a 0.09u fabed by IBM, it will alos support PCI Express, and be released along side the Prescott 0.09u since when dose ibm do .09u? Last i checked, they just perfected .13u

[nobie]

Everything I've read on forums like these is that R500 will be ~300 million transistors and 90nm. Granted, grain of salt and all that, that could be off by a long shot. With ATI designing hardware for both a new Nintendo console and a new XBox, I don't expect R500 will make it in '04.

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by nobie
Everything I've read on forums like these is that R500 will be ~300 million transistors and 90nm. Granted, grain of salt and all that, that could be off by a long shot. With ATI designing hardware for both a new Nintendo console and a new XBox, I don't expect R500 will make it in '04.

R500 is not suppose to arrive in 2004 :eek: in the first place its early 2005 product , we will have R420 in 2004..

[Fotis]

I would say that R500 would come around Longhorn and DX10(mid 2005)

[Paul]

Originally posted by Carbon Unit
There will not be a 0.11u die the NV40 will use a 0.09u fabed by IBM, it will alos support PCI Express, and be released along side the Prescott 0.09u

#BUZZER NOISE#

Wrong! Do you want to go for double jeopardy where the scores can really change?