why the excitement over the 9600xt? the ram is slow

[Geforce4ti4200]

9600 pro runs 400/600
9600xt runs 500/600

25% faster core, but with the same ram speed, we will see what? 10% better frame rates? I dont see it being faster than a 9500 pro either seeing the 9500 pro has 8 pipelines. why make 500MHz core if itll be wasted on slow 128 bit ram? :rolleyes:

[Kev1]

Don't manufacturers have the option of putting faster memory on the card than the specs imply?

[ragejg]

yup...

[ZoinKs!]

For shader heavy games (read HL 2) core speed is very important. While the 25% core boost probably won't boost hl 2 by 25%, I'm guessing it'll go up by >10%. For non-shader games, 10% sounds likely.

Keeping the same memory speed is a cost savings move. Ati can boost the core without increasing costs by much. But faster memory chips would increase the cost by a lot. It's all about finding the right balance for a mainstream part.

The 9800xt will be a better card than the 9600pro. Not revolutionary better, but incrementally better. Considering how good the 9600pro is already, I'm not gonna complain (much ;) ) about the 9600xt's memory clock.

It'd make an excellent replacement for my old reliable 8500-64 meg. :afro2:

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
9600 pro runs 400/600
9600xt runs 500/600

25% faster core, but with the same ram speed, we will see what? 10% better frame rates? I dont see it being faster than a 9500 pro either seeing the 9500 pro has 8 pipelines. why make 500MHz core if itll be wasted on slow 128 bit ram? :rolleyes:

perhaps the fact that it will use low-k dielectric process :)

thats what I really want to see..

[Hellbinder]

Really.. I dont get it either.

Why not 500/400???

There are some things ATi does that make no sense to me whatsoever.

[ChrisW]

The reason is simple. It's a value part, i.e. people want to pay much less for this card. Adding more expensive ram will increase the cost to the $200+ range. It would be a real nice card, but it would also cost about the same as the 9800 non-pro/se cards.

[theultimo]

I also think of the better yields using slower core chips. Since less has to be thrown away, its lower priced and is in a lost better quanity

[ChrisRay]

Yet Ati is saying this will perform better than a 9700 Pro? Confuses me a bit.

But I do believe it will be the first New mainstream card from ATI that will outperform the 9500 Pro regularly. Tho I dont believe it'll do it at great margins.

So far I've actually seen in 3 DX 9.0 benchmarks the 9500 pro still ahead of a 9600 Pro..

[Geforce4ti4200]

in this case, youd be better off with a 9800 non pro for a few bucks more and over 50% better performance :) the only thing going for the 9600xt is it comes with HL2, otherwise its not worth $200 at all. I hope the ram overclocks real good too

[PenguinJim]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
Yet Ati is saying this will perform better than a 9700 Pro? Confuses me a bit.

:confused: They really said that?!? I only heard it was supposed to outperform a 9500Pro...

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by PenguinJim
:confused: They really said that?!? I only heard it was supposed to outperform a 9500Pro...

anandtech said that ATI said it was supposed to outperform the 9700 Pro. Tho I think anandtech misquoted. It will probably outperform the 9500 Pro in most cases. Which can percieved as good. I think I may even buy one.

[cthellis]

I haven't seen that comment anywhere official yet, and it confuses me as to why at ALL they would say that, considering there are a fair amount of 9700's out there still. Heh... And unless they were sticking 4 more pipes on that puppy, I'd find this an excruciatingly hard claim to back up.

[Kev1]

Over at Digit-Life I just saw pics and specs of Asus's new ATI line-up including the 9800XT and 9600XT.

They have a pic of the 9600XT (It looks pretty cool), and list the core at 500 mhz and the memory at 750 mhz :eek:

Now, 750 mhz is a lot higher than the 600 mhz ATI lists as a basic/regular memory speed. I wonder how a 9600XT running at 500c/750m will perform?

I bet the answer to that is "Pretty damn good" :D

Link:

http://www.digit-life.com/news.html#1003433801

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Kev1
Over at Digit-Life I just saw pics and specs of Asus's new ATI line-up including the 9800XT and 9600XT.

They have a pic of the 9600XT (It looks pretty cool), and list the core at 500 mhz and the memory at 750 mhz :eek:

Now, 750 mhz is a lot higher than the 600 mhz ATI lists as a basic/regular memory speed. I wonder how a 9600XT running at 500c/750m will perform?

I bet the aswer to that is "Pretty damn good" :D

Link:

http://www.digit-life.com/news.html#1003433801

wow... that 9200se is TINY... geez lol...

[Joe DeFuria]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Really.. I dont get it either.

Why not 500/400???

There are some things ATi does that make no sense to me whatsoever.

Cost and power.

I know that from an end user perspective, of course we all want faster specs for the same amount of money. ;)

However, I'm sure ATI wants to keep the "mainstream performance" parts with acceptable margins, and within OEM requests for power consumption. No power connectors here.

ATI also does not want to eat into 9800 sales. Something like a 500/400 selling for <$200 would only attract more potential 9800 buyers into the 9600 bracket. ATI needs to keep product differentiation.

I suspect that once we get a sizable bump up in speed at the high end, then we'll get a sizable bump in the mid-range. Think R420 release. Assuming the R420 is the significant performance boost that we are all expecting, this gives ATI "room" to boost mid-range performance as well, without diminishing the demand for the R420.

On a related note, I'm also thinking that Anand is mis-representing whatever ATI said about the XT. Like others, I suspect the 9600 XT will be the "superior" to the 9500 Pro in most all repsects, but it doesn't have near the memory bandwidth to compete with any of the 256 bit solutions, including the 9700.

I'm guessing we'll see 9700 performance hit the "mainstream" (<$200) market in Q1 04.

[AlphaWolf]

They have a pic of the 9600XT (It looks pretty cool), and list the core at 500 mhz and the memory at 750 mhz Now, 750 mhz is a lot higher than the 600 mhz ATI lists as a basic/regular memory speed. I wonder how a 9600XT running at 500c/750m will perform?

You will notice that the 750mhz ram says (325mhz DDR) on Asus's site.

Asus (http://www.asus.com/news/2003/20031001.htm)

One of the values is obviously incorrect, my guess is the 750mhz is just a typo.

[B&R]

The AIW 9600p comes with good ram so i am assuming the 9600XT should also come with sometin like 2.8ns. It will be really useful when u overclock the ram from 600mhz.

[CaptNKILL]

Originally posted by Joe DeFuria

ATI also does not want to eat into 9800 sales. Something like a 500/400 selling for <$200 would only attract more potential 9800 buyers into the 9600 bracket. ATI needs to keep product differentiation.


Erm, Im not sure what your saying here. ATI sells the 9800 Pro, the 9800 SE and the 9600 Pro. The 9800 SE is obviously not a long lasting product, Im guessing they are already done producing them. I dont see how any 9600, clocked at any speed could hurt the sales of a 9800 Pro. Two totaly different markets.

Remember, the 9800 np is completely gone from the market (at least in the united states), so your either spending $325 (9800 Pro)or $175 (9600 Pro). I wouldnt be surpised if they introduced a card to fill the (gigantic) price\performance gap.... the 9800SE obviously doesnt (its just a scam anyway).

BTW, anyone who finds a 9800np for sale, for a good price, PM me :)

[Kev1]

Wonder which is the typo, the 750 mhz or the 325 mhz ddr? Confusing :confused:

I, like everyone else, hope faster memory is available for the 9600XT than 600 mhz :(

[Geforce4ti4200]

its a misquote. they meant 9500 pro, not 9700 pro. also I heard asus will indeed use 750MHz ram and not 600 or 650 :) the solution from asus will be far the best, but they could charge more and probably will. some may feel its better to get a 9800np instead but you dont get HL2 bundled, also it may be hard to find them except on ebay

[Edge]

some may feel its better to get a 9800np instead but you dont get HL2 bundled

Going from recent news, I wouldn't count on that...

[cthellis]

Oh you'll still get the coupon bundled... you'll just perhaps have to wait a WHILE to redeem it. Heh...

[B&R]

til april to be precise.:afro: