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rth
10-04-03, 12:47 AM
can't this simply be verified by checking DX files (sizes/MD5) before and after Det50 installation?

one person doing this would be a million times more useful than the flood of "this is BS" comments in the other closed thread.

GlowStick
10-04-03, 02:19 AM
yes, directx has alot of files and is pritty complicated, it would be hard to figure out exactly what files should be checked.

rth
10-04-03, 02:37 AM
you could use filemon or similar program during driver installation to see all the files being created/changed.

Remi
10-04-03, 07:47 AM
You seem to know how to do it and to think it's worth, why not doing it yourself then?

synk
10-04-03, 09:45 AM
yea doit

extreme_dB
10-04-03, 10:02 AM
There's a good program called inctrl5 that tracks the changes made to a system after an installation.

Download from here:

http://www.devhood.com/tools/tool_details.aspx?tool_id=432

theultimo
10-04-03, 09:39 PM
I checked DXdiag, which lists all related dx files, before and after 51.75 installations. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary installed, same DX9.0b files.

euan
10-04-03, 10:19 PM
If NV were doing this then if i were them, I would do it dynamically at runtime. In Win32 you can "hook" into dlls and even the COM objects that the DirectX dlls use. When a program loads a dll it gets loaded into memory. When you hook the object, say a function, you can re-direct calls to the funtion to a different location. In that location you place your own version of the function being called. This is the techique that fraps uses, and also TB's program from ********* uses.

FRAPS hooks into DirectDraw and intercepts all calls to draw the frontbuffer, thereby allowing the program to time the interval between calls, and hence determine the FPS. It then passes the call back to the real Ddraw dll so that the stuff actually draws in the screen.

So NV can simply hook into say the function Direct3DShaderValidatorCreate9() inside d3d9.dll (more likely to be something else more technical in D3D) check the module name of the current process, which will then determine the application name, and do optimizations at will. To determine if this is being done you need to hook into the dll and compare the IAT tables (this is the list of functions available in the object), and see if they have been changed. Comparing file names and dates etc will have no effect.

The_KELRaTH
10-05-03, 04:33 AM
Another way would be to rename the required DX files, store as a hidden file, then insert the replacement files that are stored within the encyrpted drivers only prior to a D3D app running. When the D3D app exits or stops the replaced files are deleted and the originals put back.
Of course to detect this you would just run tests with / without read only w/pass set on the Win directory.

StealthHawk
10-05-03, 05:04 PM
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:

Edge
10-05-03, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:

I honestly don't know anymore. There's been so many Nvidia accusations it's hard to tell which ones are legitimate. I wouldn't be suprised if half of the things Nvidia has supposedly done are totally bogus. I wish there could be SOME kind of official statement from someone about this.

The Baron
10-05-03, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:
I'm with my brother Stealth on this one.

euan
10-05-03, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:

If it isn't real yet, then if must have gave Nvidia some great ideas! :D

digitalwanderer
10-05-03, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
I'm with my brother Stealth on this one.
Thirded. :)

Hellbinder
10-05-03, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:
But what if Bigfoot is real...

At least thats what the Aliens told me during my latest Abduction shortly after another (rather uncomfortable) *shudder* anal probe. Which they assured me was for the betterment of Humanity.

Pass the Waffles please.

digitalwanderer
10-05-03, 06:01 PM
The Dig passes Hellbinder a generous plateful of waffles.

cthellis
10-05-03, 06:46 PM
I hope you brought enough for everybody.

Edge
10-05-03, 06:50 PM
Nice job Stealth, 1 line got 4 people to quote you and 2 more to agree with you :)

ChrisW
10-05-03, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Does anyone seriously think this is real :rolleyes:
All I can say is don't give them any more ideas! So far, every crazy thing I could think of that I thought they would not be crazy enough to try, they have done. Remember when everyone was calling me crazy to suggest nVidia may be "enhancing" their screenshots?

I'm starting to think they are getting some of their ideas from reading these forums. :eek2:

StealthHawk
10-05-03, 07:43 PM
Ok, assume for one second that DX9 files can be replaced. What benefit would this bring? NVIDIA can already circumvent shader standards at the driver level(ie use FX12), why would they have to hack DX9 itself?

digitalwanderer
10-05-03, 07:54 PM
The Dig pulls out a rather huge platter of waffles and starts handing out generous portions to everybody.

Sorry, didn't know anyone else wanted any. :(

GlowStick
10-05-03, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
The Dig pulls out a rather huge platter of waffles and starts handing out generous portions to everybody.

Sorry, didn't know anyone else wanted any. :( Leggo my Eggo.

MrNasty
10-06-03, 12:19 AM
the DX team has allready stated nvidias drivers alter DX files, it's a shame nvidia have not changed their dastardly ways :(

mrsabidji
10-06-03, 12:54 AM
No, it was 'Team DX', you know with the T-shirts and the wind in the hair and all.

mrsabidji

edit : oh, and thanks for the waffles.

Spiritwalker
10-06-03, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Ok, assume for one second that DX9 files can be replaced. What benefit would this bring? NVIDIA can already circumvent shader standards at the driver level(ie use FX12), why would they have to hack DX9 itself?

Simple. Instead of having to optimize for each game they would now be able to just change DX so that it would run their base set of drivers that "no longer included any hacks".