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saturnotaku
10-01-03, 11:26 PM
I was going to post this in the Halo gone gold thread, but I think now that the game is officially in retail it warrants a thread for all to respond who are playing/have played the PC version of Halo.

I had Halo for Xbox and while I enjoyed it immensely, I still missed having a keyboard and mouse to use. But now, after all these years of waiting, I have my keyboard and mouse, I have my higher resolution, I have a game that uses my graphics hardware features and frankly...I'm disappointed.

Someone brought it up in the other thread, but I feel it bears repeating here. This game reeks of cheap console port instead of game that was built from the ground up using some of the code that was written before the big Microsoft buyout/Xbox only introduction. I'm hoping some of the game performance issues will be sorted out via patches. I'm not expecting miracles here, but it would be nice if my framerate wouldn't drop into the teens on occasion without having anisotropic filtering or FSAA enabled. The 60 Hz thing is annoying as hell, too. I shouldn't have to add a switch to the command line to make sure the game doesn't crash if I use Refresh Force. The mouse control/sensitivity is bull. I'm a twitch FPS player, meaning I have my mouse senitivity set higher than normal. But even with it turned up in the game, the time it takes to turn around still feels like it did with my Xbox. The sound is buggy with EAX enabled.

Again, I hope patches can sort some of thsi stuff out, but this game has all the look and feel of yet another rushed console port. Problem is, they've had more than a freaking year to work on it!! I'm half-tempted to write Bungie an e-mail expressing my disappointment. I think multiplayer is going to be the only saving grace for this game. :(

jAkUp
10-01-03, 11:42 PM
i agree.. ive never played halo on xbox, but i just picked up the game today, and to me, it definetely looks like a rushed port. the framerate dips into the teens for no reason at all... the game doesnt look nearly as good as unreal2, or anything, yet it still dips.

and here is proof that is is a pretty much direct console port= 30fps locked for gameplay. of course you can turn it off, but the cutscenes dont work properly. some of the game looks pretty, then other parts look super ugly. some textures are super low resolution.

the mouse feels awkward.. kinda laggy.

oh well, at least max payne 2 comes out in a couple weeks



halo for pc reminds me of gta3 for pc, a rushed port that ran slow on any computer... gtavc was much better optimized.

saturnotaku
10-02-03, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by jAkUp
halo for pc reminds me of gta3 for pc, a rushed port that ran slow on any computer... gtavc was much better optimized.

I could see and sympathize for this if Halo for PC and Xbox came out at the same time. But they were so far apart and everything was delayed so much that I wasn't terribly enthusiastic about picking it up. My expectations were pretty low and so far this game hasn't exceeded any of them. If it doesn't get any better in a couple patch releases, I'll probably send the game back to Bungie and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

RoachMojo
10-02-03, 01:13 AM
Well..Halo...


I've been eagerly awaiting this game and I too am very dissapointed.

Any game whose framerate drops to 6 fps at times (on the Truth level in the capital ship) on my system is just not ready for the market. That's at 1024x768 details maxed with no AA, no AF, and EAX disabled.

The thing is, it doesn't look THAT good to account for such crappy performance. It HAS to be a bug.

Although the gameplay is interesting and pretty fun, the lousy performance and rushed pc port feel just doesn't warrent the $50+ price tag. Not even $20, imho.

I'll be returning it tomorrow. If a patch is eventually released that increases the performance to the point of being playable, then I'll pick it up again at the inevitable discount price.

LycosV
10-02-03, 02:00 AM
This game shows the epitomy of PPP (Piss Poor Programming). As everyone else here as stated, it doesn't look that good, and it runs like crap. I have noticed that turning off the gloss/shiny/whatever that option is off makes the game run MUCH better. Not great, but much better.

LycosV

danlofgren
10-02-03, 02:33 AM
Don't worry - i'm not about to review the game. I'll simply say i think most of us will agree Halo is an awesome game with performance issues (almost in-excuseable nowadays) due to development.

I agree with the above statements about the game being a disapointment (on one hand) -- meaning poor framerate and general poor performance (even on an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro). By todays standards, it doesn't make sense. This over 1 year old game, should and could be better - no doubt.

However -- I also think the game is incredibly awesome.

I've never played the xbox version - and the more i play pc halo, the more i like it and the better it looks and impresses me as a solid and complete title.

Some, arguable inexusable, performance issues? Yes.

An awesome game nonetheless? Yes. (i've just obtained the 4wheeler and am practicing cruising around - very impressive controls).

So continue complaining and whining as many of us will. I see your points and i agree they are valid.

But I'm still going to enjoy the game - cause it's all new to me and it's better than a lot of other crap out there!

"There's more to games than framerates..."

RoachMojo
10-02-03, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by danlofgren
(i've just obtained the 4wheeler and am practicing cruising around - very impressive controls).

I agree, that was awesome!

However...everything was fine up to and beyond that point for me, framerate-wise...then I hit the 6-8 fps spots on the cruiser and that just sucked ass. It's almost but not quite unplayable.

Right now I am torn between returning it, and keeping it to see if a patch can change performance.

Ill probably keep it, heh, because it IS prety damned fun. :)

-=DVS=-
10-02-03, 04:02 AM
GOT IT PLAYING IT LIKEING IT :D

Runs smoothly locked at 30FPS
VSYNC ON
AA OFF
AF OFF
ALL in game effects maxed @ 800x600 100hz
With not overcloaked system below useing Cats 3.7.

Dunno what everyone is talking i see no sutter or single digit frame rates :rolleyes: maybe people should stop running it at 1600x1200 its console game after all.

Yes its true its kinda low 30fps but its smooth and stable, graphic wise its somwhat Unreal 2 level more or less in different areas.

BUT !!! game is freakin fun to play not boreing like Unreal 2 , Halo big areas alot of life to kill and lots of lots of troops to help you :D

Game is nothing special but alot of fun ;)

PS this is without any patch , haven't installed it yet no need realy :p

StealthHawk
10-02-03, 04:20 AM
What's this I hear about FSAA not working in Halo? Is it true?

MUYA
10-02-03, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
What's this I hear about FSAA not working in Halo? Is it true?
Absolutely! U have to ask Digital Wanderer though as I forgot the url to eb which tells ya how to do it. Mind you u will miss a few effects, exactly what i forgot



CHeers

MUYA

saturnotaku
10-02-03, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
What's this I hear about FSAA not working in Halo? Is it true?

Here's (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18078&pagenumber=4) the info on how to get AA working. From what I can tell it does work, and I'm not missing a whole lot.

Dunno what everyone is talking i see no sutter or single digit frame rates maybe people should stop running it at 1600x1200 its console game after all.

People are getting crappy performance even at 1024x768 on 9700 Pro cards. This is on a game that was originally demoed on a Mac with a TNT2-class card. I remember the Penny Arcade cartoon from 2000 that talked about the original Halo demo. I've followed development pretty closely the whole way. For all the time and effort that was suppoesedly put into this, the results are speaking for themselves.

Nutty
10-02-03, 08:32 AM
I think the main issue is fillrate. The game was developed for Xbox which runs at 640x480. And even then it only does 30, sometimes lower.

If you run at 1280x960, you're doing 4 times the fillrate! I think its because pretty much everything in the game is bump-mapped and environment mapped. Even UT2k3 doesn't do an awful lot on most surfaces.

Vash
10-02-03, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
People are getting crappy performance even at 1024x768 on 9700 Pro cards. This is on a game that was originally demoed on a Mac with a TNT2-class card. I remember the Penny Arcade cartoon from 2000 that talked about the original Halo demo. I've followed development pretty closely the whole way. For all the time and effort that was suppoesedly put into this, the results are speaking for themselves. [/B]


Yes the game demoed on a TNT2 class card way back in 2000 - but they went through at least one engine re-write before they had to re-write it again to move it to the X-box. Comparing the performance of an ancient build to the current game is just a little unfair, I think. If I remember corretly, that TNT2 demo was back when they were going to use terrain generation to allow you to traverse the entire Halo construct. That and the TNT2 version didn't have bump mapping and other cool graphical goodies that the X-box version does.

In my opinion, Halo is the best console to PC port of a game that I've seen. GTA 3 still makes me turn down the draw distance because my system can't handle it. In Halo, I get very playable framerates (no hard numbers yet; haven't done any testing) at 1024x768 with all the details turned up and Vsync off.

That's not enough in and of itself to make me ignore the game's flaws, however: Gearbox is under contract with Microsoft to continue producing content and working on the game (patches, bonus content, editing tools, etc) for the next year. No other console port, ever, has released editing tools (or at least I can't think of one). Certainly not one that's this high profile. So we can look foward to increased performance (stability doesn't seem to be an issue), bugfixes, more MP levels, editing tools, and hopefully, addressing some of the game's other weaknesses: a high-res texture pack, higher poly count models, better animations, this sort of thing.

It's not perfect, but then the game's a console port. That's what Microsoft wanted Gearbox to do, and that's what they did. They weren't hired to build a PC game from the ground up. While I don't have any experience porting code from the X-box to PC, I can imagine that doing that produces some pretty strange coding challenges (and legal situations, too. Changing the code too much to adapt it for the PC may be restricted by the contract), and will undoubtedly affect how the game is built compared to other engine'd games. The Halo engine definitely has its eccentricities (the command-line refresh rate thing for one), and I think these are attributable to the nature of the port.


That said, there are issues that I have with the game. First and foremost is the need for a higher sensitivity for the mouse. It shouldn't be too difficult to do. Whether this can be taken care of in an .ini file, or if Gearbox handles this in an upcoming patch, or if someone decides to write a mod for Halo that allows higher mouse speeds, it'll get done somehow.

Second issue: performance. While I'm happy with where my system is running the game (specs: 1.4Ghz Thunderbird, SBLive! value, Abit NF7-S 2.0, 1Gig Corsair TwinX, GF4 Ti4600, no overclocking on anything), I can see room for improvement. There are definitely issues that need to be resolved that will allow the code to run faster. From what they've posted in their forums, Gearbox will definitely be addressing this.

Third: appearance. I can see Gearbox releasing a high definition pack for Halo sometime down the road with higher res textures and higher polycount models. Also a possibility for this would be better animation files.

Fourth (not least): timing. While it's an interesting feature, I'd like to see the frame limiter go. Whether or not this will happen, I don't know. We'll have to see. I'd love to see the frame limiter go and the animations improved.

Bottom line for me is that I'm having a ton of fun playing single player and I'm really looking forward to getting broadband this month and going out on the Internet. The game's great and very fun to play, and while it is an eccentric piece of software, the rougher edges are gonna get smoothed out.

Vash
10-02-03, 09:51 AM
Just found a short tweak guide (primarily for MP, but you can use this in SP to improve your experience, too). Check it out. (http://www.subnova.com/library/?aid=20031002.081142)


Woohoo! More tweaking: This one's to help with the mouse lag. (http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=technical&Number=24047&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

Yes, it's a pain to have to type in a command every time you start the game. I haven't tried this yet, but I'd guess that there's some way to add the command to shut off acceleration to the config.txt, we just haven't found it yet.

The Baron
10-02-03, 10:02 AM
Is it worth $50.

I'm headed to Best Buy over the weekend, and man, I loved the hour I played of it on the Xbox.

Vash
10-02-03, 10:08 AM
In my opinion, it is. It's the funnest FPS I've played since Half-Life. There are technical issues, but those'll get worked out. The Halo community is a pretty cool one to boot, and they're gonna be all over those editing tools like mud on a pig. I'm expecting some very cool MP maps for this game, as well as some sweet mods.

saturnotaku
10-02-03, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Is it worth $50.

I'm headed to Best Buy over the weekend, and man, I loved the hour I played of it on the Xbox.

If you've never played it before, and you plan to do some MP action then this game is absolutely worth the money. You will enjoy it even more with "proper" controls. :)

It may sound like I'm really knocking the game, but this is a good game overall. But having played it on Xbox, I'm left wanting more.

By the way, Midnight Club II and GTA: Vice City were very good console ports. Halo is definitely far better than GTA3 in this category, but I'm going to mess around with the former some more before I make a judgement if it's up there with the other two.

The Baron
10-02-03, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Vash
In my opinion, it is. It's the funnest FPS I've played since Half-Life. There are technical issues, but those'll get worked out. The Halo community is a pretty cool one to boot, and they're gonna be all over those editing tools like mud on a pig. I'm expecting some very cool MP maps for this game, as well as some sweet mods.
Oi.

The simple possibility for a Marathon mod makes my decision for me.

Vash
10-02-03, 10:31 AM
Sat: yes, GTA:VC is a good console port. Sorry to have jumped all over ya, buddy; there are a lot of idiots running around the Gearbox boards throwing insults and poorly thought out accusations and I'm still a little jumpy. Over there, at least, I feel as if I'm the only one who can see 1) the work that was put into Halo: PC and 2) how difficult it might have been.

So, to summarize: I likes it much, the tech issues will get worked out, and I am "teh suck" for having blown a fuse. :(

randsom
10-02-03, 11:11 AM
well, i have had nothin but problems with game,

hard locks, eax is broken,performance issues, mouse and movement issues.I have a pretty nice gaming rig.p4c@3500 ic7-g,9800pro,audigy 2, 1 gig of ram, and it runs like crap, uttter crap. I have zero isssues with any other game out there so its not my box.i have gone as for as going to back tostock speeds on everything and still the same issues. theres supposedly a patch on the way next week, thats supposed to solve some of these issues, but right now, i feel ripped off.

Microsoft and bungie reportledly put the collective squeeze on gearbox to get this game out the door yesterday.The games is absolutly fun to play, has a great story line, and mp is a blast, when i can get it to run.Theres absolutly no excuse for this.:mad:


the wierd thing is the beta 1.5 was supposed to run much better than this.what happened.:mad:

RoachMojo
10-02-03, 12:31 PM
It's worth it, Baron. Way fun!

Performance issues aside, I also have experienced the EAX bug where character voices cut out, but disabling EAX only partially fixed the problem.

I had one other weird bug at the part where I get woken up from cryosleep and have to look around. I could only look left and right, but not up and down. I then had to remap movement to the arrow keys and it worked (mouse movement, that is).

Also, the game would crash on load if my pop-up stopper was running.

I would like to know if others are getting the 6-9 fps drops when on the Covenent cruiser. Even disabling all effects had very little impact on framerate at that point.

Vash
10-02-03, 12:40 PM
Someone claims over on the Gearbox forums that running an Anti-virus software package also kills performance.

If true, that definitely needs to be resolved.

RoachMojo
10-02-03, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Vash
Someone claims over on the Gearbox forums that running an Anti-virus software package also kills performance.

If true, that definitely needs to be resolved.

I'm running the free version of AVG vscan, and tested that as well. I didn't see any differences in performance with or without it running, but maybe other vscanners cause problems?

I was pissed after installing Halo and getting an exception error on first load. The first game ever that had a problem with Meaya ad filter...

saturnotaku
10-02-03, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Vash
Sat: yes, GTA:VC is a good console port. Sorry to have jumped all over ya, buddy; there are a lot of idiots running around the Gearbox boards throwing insults and poorly thought out accusations and I'm still a little jumpy. Over there, at least, I feel as if I'm the only one who can see 1) the work that was put into Halo: PC and 2) how difficult it might have been.

So, to summarize: I likes it much, the tech issues will get worked out, and I am "teh suck" for having blown a fuse. :(

I'm not mad at you, and I certainly didn't take your post as "jumping all over me," no need to apologize at all. And as I said, I don't dislike the game the game at all. I'm most mad at the fact that we are well over a year (more like 18 months) from the launch of Halo wih the Xbox, the team was supposedly going to work on the PC port a few weeks after that and this is what they released. GTA: Vice City came out within 6 months from the PS2 launch and it's much more polished than Halo. I have to believe that porting from PS2 to PC is more difficult than Xbox to PC. Compounding the problem is that I know Bungie and Gearbox are better than this. Oni was a great game from a development standpoint. It ran well on almost all harware and is one of a handful of PC games I've ever played that didn't display major, showstopping bugs that required patching. And Gearbox: look at Opposing Force, Blue Shift and the Half-Life High Definition pack. Yes, I know it's a weak comparison because they weren't working on a completely original project, but both those games were exceptionally well done.

I don't expect perfection, but some of these issues are inexcusable considering how much time they had to work with this.

I did some playing this morning and I did find that 1024x768, 2xAA and 8x performance AF does give a good combination of performance and quality. But with no AA, 1280x1024 runs like garbage, which bugs me to no end. I've found the high degree of AF is necessary because you can blatantly see the mipmap boundaries on anything less. I'm not too mad about this because performance is still somewhat good, but in UT2003 I can barely see the mipmap boundaries with AF off. Also, I disabled the specular setting. I think it makes objects look more realistic, and I gained probably about 2-3 fps in the process. I will definitely try the mouse lag thing posted above. I'll do it every time I launch the game if necessary, but I hope this is something that can be resolved in a patch.

Vash
10-02-03, 01:25 PM
Sat - I know you weren't upset about it, but I was ('cause I went a little off the handle when there was no real reason), so I apologized. Nuf said. :)


Actually Gearbox didn't start development of Halo immediately after the X-Box version was released. It didn't start until some time later. I don't know exact dates, but I am sure that they haven't been developing this since the original's release.

They have had to to add a console backbone, which I consider to be a remarkable feat.

But anywho - yeah, there are problems, but I fully expect them to be resolved. Maybe not tomorrow, but Gearbox will get it done. In the meantime, I'm gonna sit here and wish I was at home playing Campaign.