PDA

View Full Version : GeForce FX 5200 PCI horrible framerates


Kamel
10-14-03, 05:45 PM
hello everyone. i am getting extremely bad framerates with my new geforce fx 5200. i realize that PCI is a definite performance hit, but i am just wondering if my performance is expected to be what it is or if i am missing my mark.

the reason being, i paid around $120 for this card, whereas my friend got a geforce 3 ti200 for $40 and his card outperforms mine by a significant amount. his is agp and mine is pci, so i suspect that has something to do with it.

anyway, i have the newest drivers and am a strong believer in being up to date, so just about everything is up to date, including my motherboard, operating system, and directx. i have windows xp pro sp1.

here are my system specs.

intel pentium 3 coppermine 800mhz with 100mhz FSB (i think, go here http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/processors/pentiumiii/index.htm?iid=ipp_desk_proc+prod_p3p&)

2 sticks of pc133 ram, 256 each, 512MB total system memory.

80GB WD drive @ 7200RPM

10GB seagate @ 5200RPM

intel i810 chipset/motherboard

i have a pci geforce fx 5200, 128MB video ram.

i have an onboard intel 82810E graphics controller card, and use it as the video card to do dual monitors with (experimented with disabling this card and it didn't have any noticable performance impact)

linksys NC100 Fast Ethernet adapter

soundblaster live Ensoniq PCI

annd, i think that's about it. may be worth noting that it's a dell l800r series computer, though i have done a considerable amount of upgrades.

basically, i am just wanting to know if maybe i have a faulty card, i need to update something on my computer to make it run better, maybe i need to modify the settings for best performance on a less capable machine as mine, i don't know.

i know getting a beefier FSB would help, but i am just wondering if that is my bottleneck.

the card came with 2 demos, dawn and ogre. i run dawn at well under 1 FPS, but it does run, and ogre refuses to load (i hear music then it dies). i tried downloading some geforce 4 and 3 demos for it, and they ran slow as well.

i get a score of 2822 in 3DMark2000, and in 3dmark 2003 i got a score of 765 -- both tests set to defaults.

on Vulpine GLmark (compatability: GeForce 3 features detail: high additional compatability: use opengl lighting, use vertex array range, use texture compression textures: 32bit fullscreen 32 bit at 1024x768) i got a score of 21.5FPS run time 7 min 55 seconds, max FPS 56, min FPS 11, total frames 10424

i hope that's enough info, i can give u dxdiag or whatever you like if you want, i just didn't want to make this post too large.

thanks for your time

saturnotaku
10-14-03, 05:59 PM
Strike 1:
Your CPU speed and PC133 memory are severely limiting your performance.

Strike 2:
You're using PCI on your video card

Strike 3:
The FX5200 you have likely has a 64-bit memory bus, which hurts performance drastically.

Your only recourse would be to start saving your pennies for a new system. You can get an nForce2 motherboard, Thoroughbred-B AMD Athlon XP processor and some PC2700 (DDR333) memory for probably less than $300 now.

Kamel
10-14-03, 06:10 PM
i would be most greatful if you have any suggestions on where to get these parts etc... i was looking at getting a new system sortof (new case+psu, ram, motherboard).

anyway, what i'm wanting to know is my worst bottleneck, the thing about the 64bit bus, can that be fixed or have i just been ripped off? lol

ricercar
10-14-03, 06:12 PM
I don't think your PCI GeForce FX 5200 is doing badly. My Gainward/FX 5200/PCI/64 MB gets only 3629 OnionMarks01 and that's on nForce2 with a Barton 3000+ CPU and 333 MHz FSB.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7061809

The Baron
10-14-03, 06:21 PM
Re: the 64-bit 5200 bus. No, you're SOL with that card. Basically, buy a new video card.

hithere
10-14-03, 06:44 PM
Where you're at right now, I'd say that no matter the upgrade, other parts of your system would still hold it back...If you're interested in upgrading on the dirt cheap, I'd shoot for something around the 2.1-gig range, with PC2100 DDR Ram, and a GF4Ti-series card. They can be had sub-$100 if you do your looking, and the rest of the system figure $50-75 each for the chip, mobo, and ram. It wouldn't be cutting edge, but you'd be playing all the newest games at 1024X768, minus the eye-candy. If you want to get even cheaper, try for the 1.6-1.8 gig range, some of those cpu's can be had around $40. Check prices at www.pricewatch.com.

In case you're wondering: Yes, the 5200 PCI, for $120, is a complete rip-off. You can find old Radeon 8500, 9100, and 9200 series cards as well as Ti-series GF4 for less, and they all do better. If your mobo lacks an AGP port, I'd have split the difference with the best mobo you could get for $50, and looked for a used GF4-Ti. Sorry about your purchase.

Stop back in and post before your next upgrade, folks around here won't steer you wrong (unless you're trying to buy from them directly:p )

Here's a mobo for $30:
http://www.pcrapids.com/home.asp?pw=y&pwl=search/productdesc.asp?lsskuid=MOTPCCSOCK01918

Here's a chip for $30: http://www.store.yahoo.com/glob2000/msik7ttuviak.html

Here's some ram for $30: http://buyaib.com/25pc21brinst.html

Here's a video card for the same price you paid: http://www.hoct.com/1008.html

Here's a cheaper one:
http://www.target-sale.com/tusa/items/videoagp/i04099.html

And even cheaper:
http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/simprod.asp?pid=5628&ad=pwatch

and cheaper:
http://www.computer123.com/home.asp?sku=VAGF3F500M

and cheaper:
http://www.hoct.com/atira9212ddr.html

The video cards I've shown are all sort of weak for their class, but they're cheap, and I'd put any one of them up next to your current card. However, you will find better values than this for an older video card buying one used, perhaps from a freind who is upgrading.

Kamel
10-14-03, 07:21 PM
actually, i was already going to get a new system, i guess it was stupid on my part to get a pci card before doing so knowing i will definitely have an agp slot in the new one.

oh well, as a reply to your 3dmark score, that's 3dmark 2001, i did my benchmark on 3dmark 2000.

i am going to try to get the barton core at 2.6Ghz/333FSB, and run this motherboard: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=614939&sku=M450-1008 (yes, i know it's socket 478, and not socket A --- they have other models for AMD but i dont like them as well)

http://www.compubuzz.com/product_info.php?products_id=558

still not completely determined about it, but i am fairly certain that's the direction i'm going in. i am now looking for a case, if anyone knows of a place that sells good cases for cheap. i'd like one with a window and all that cool stuff because i know it's the last upgrade i'll be doing in a while, might as well make it a good one. my budget for this is around $300-400.

anyway, thanks so far -- actually it cost me $105 for the vid card, but it was $120 for S&H along side of it.

i guess i will get the upgrade and deal with the graphics card until i get the money to buy another card, heh.

saturnotaku
10-14-03, 07:30 PM
Umm...socket 478 is the Pentium 4. You need a socket A board to run any kind of AMD processor. P4 processors are going to be much more expensive when compared to a comparable AMD of the same clock speed. A good nForce2 motherboard will run you about $100. You don't absolutely need a 2600 Barton. You can save yourself $10 and get the Barton 2500+ or save a little more and get a Thoroughbred-B 2400+ or 2200+.

Kamel
10-14-03, 07:40 PM
i know, i was not saying i'll actually get that, just that it looked nice. that's why i added the note that i know it's not designed for an AMD chip, but what's wrong with going intel? i might be able to get a nice system running a celeron for pretty cheap... although celerons scare me, i've heard some horror stories about them, lol

CaptNKILL
10-14-03, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by ricercar
I don't think your PCI GeForce FX 5200 is doing badly. My Gainward/FX 5200/PCI/64 MB gets only 3629 OnionMarks01 and that's on nForce2 with a Barton 3000+ CPU and 333 MHz FSB.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7061809
WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!

Man, the FX 5200 must suck a lot more than I thought! My old comp:
750Mhz Athlon Classic Slot A
TYAN KX133 board @ 200fsb (stock)
384Mbs PC-133
Geforce 2 GTS 32Mb AGP @ 220\366
I got 4300 in 3dMark 2k1!!!!!!!

What I really want to know is, why on earth did Kamel spend $120 on a 5200 PCI?? If you can, RETURN IT, then spend the money on a new mobo\cpu. Whoever sold you that card for that much money should be kicked in the junk. That card retails for $70, its worth more like $20 (since its much slower than cards that cost $40).

ragejg
10-14-03, 09:02 PM
If you want to experience satisfactory gaming on your current rig while you educate yourself a little more with componentry (we'll help you :) ), your best bet would be to sell your PCI 5200 for the highest price one can get on ebay (easy to do), and do what you can to get a Radeon 9100 PCI... Even in your platform the R200 core in the 9100 flexes the muscles it still has to push through the most fillrate and give the best performance of any PCI based solution... I don't mean for that to sound like an advertisemnent, but the 9100 pci (NOT THE 9000) equipped with 128 bit memory actually is the only card IMO that one could actually *upgrade to* that would offer enough performance jump to seem worthwhile... Then when you pass that system on, it'll be basically equipped to the gills (for a pci based system) in terms of graphics...

:)

Kamel
10-14-03, 09:38 PM
i might be able to trade it in for something, seeing as i just bought it less than 30 days ago (i think i got the card the 8th), but there will probably be about a 15% restocking fee or something. that's alright, the people at the place are very nice, i would say that they would do what they could to help me out. got it from www.buy.com

i hate to ask so much of you guys, but from the pci cards there which do you think is the best? i don't really know a lot about graphics cards... i wish i had found this place before i got my card, lol.

anyway, thanks so much for all of your help guys. i tried looking at toms hardware and stuff but i really didn't understand most of that stuff.

here's a listing of all of the ati cards, although i noticed that their search system is quite glitchy, so that may be wrong, heh.

http://www.buy.com/retail/computers/store.asp?loc=1765

thanks again, i most definitely appreciate all of your help.

saturnotaku
10-14-03, 09:52 PM
No PCI card is going to be "best" especially with such demanding games on the horizon. Take the money you get back from the return of your present card and use it toward the purchase of a motherboard with an AGP slot. The GeForce4 Ti4200 is still a great choice. It might not have the full DirectX 9 feature set, but it will be a severe kick in the pants from what you have.

Kamel
10-14-03, 10:14 PM
i realize that about pci, but i'm still wanting to upgrade this computer, that way i know i have 2 fair gaming pc's.

found the card you were talking about for a kickass price...
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=515318&cid=25608&fp=F

don't know if it will be faster than the one i've got, but if anything i'll get about $50 back, lmao.

about the agp card. if i get an agp card, i am probably going to get either a really nice geforce 3 ti or a geforce 4 ti. i could care less about directx 9 features to be quite honest, i just want a fluid framerate... being able to keep it constantly at 76FPS on enemy territory would be nice, because the physics of the game update every frame, so at 76fps you can jump higher and further.

ok, enough jabbering, i've e-mailed my customer service rep from www.buy.com where i ordered the card asking about their return policy. i will know by tomorrow what the deal is with that.

ragejg
10-14-03, 10:22 PM
that's a good deal on an honest-performing card...

I'm glad they included the memory bitrate in the description...

Kamel
10-14-03, 11:18 PM
would it benifit me to get the 128mb version? j/w, it only costs like $20 more, figured it might be worth the extra $$ since it isn't much.

hordaktheman
10-15-03, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Kamel
would it benifit me to get the 128mb version? j/w, it only costs like $20 more, figured it might be worth the extra $$ since it isn't much.

Since your dealing with a pci, and not an agp card, the extra 64megs would make a hell of a difference for textures. Although agp texturing has always been seriously blown out of proportion, it DOES allow faster transfers. So for a pci card the extra 64 megs are, in my view, an absolute must. Especially now that games are starting to take advantage of 128 megs, not just for textures, but for geometry as well.

Besides, 70 bucks isn't a lot of money, so when you upgrade your mobo, memory, and cpu, this card should definately hold you over until you next upgrade your vid card, e.g. an agp dx9 or 10 card.

Kamel
10-15-03, 06:03 PM
ok, i found this:

http://www.buy.com/retail/computers/product.asp?sku=10344288&loc=101

would that be a nice card which i wont have to update for a while? just wondering, because if i get the new box, i could get this card. i am wondering if it will be sufficiant or if there is a better card out there for under $150.

please let me know because i'm retarded when it comes to video cards. generally i go by how much they cost as how good they are, lmao. if any cards are available for $150 or less which are as good or better (dont care about features, i am speaking entirely in terms of performance), please post a reply. thanks :D

ragejg
10-15-03, 09:07 PM
That's not such a good deal at $150...

the 5600 is a weak card, and can get kicked around fairly easy by a $45-$75 Geforce 3 or a $70-130 Geforce 4 ti... There are other cards in this price range that would benifit you more in the long haul. Right now @ up to $150, your best bet would be to get a Radeon 9500Pro, a 9600Pro, or a 5600 Ultra... I know you could find these cards @ $150 total somewhere...

flick556
10-15-03, 10:32 PM
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=Go&description=radeon%2C9600

cheap and powerful graphics card 9600 pro 150 bucks

buy all other parts from http://www.directron.com
they have good prices and give discounts when you buy items together.

Rogozhin
10-15-03, 11:18 PM
newegg.com has the $63 radeon 8500LE that is a much better card than anything else in its price range-this is agp and you can get a biostar nforce 2 mobo for $58 as well.

rogo

Kamel
10-16-03, 01:42 AM
thanks for the input, someone in the irc channel advised me to get the radeon 9600 pro. i think i'll do that. i want the best card i can get without paying $200+ for it, and the 9600 pro seems to fit the suit very well.

thanks again for all your help, i am going to do what i can now to get a new system. i am going to get an amd athlon xp 2600 w/333fsb, 512mb of pc2100 ram, an nForce motherboard, and a 350w powersupply.... of course this is just a concept, and god only knows if i'll actually be able to get it or not, lol.

hordaktheman
10-16-03, 02:35 PM
Great choice.

But on the other hand, if you're not immediately upgrading, you might wanna wait a couple of weeks for the 9600xt. Same card, same price (I think) but somewhat faster.

Otherwise go for it.

flick556
10-17-03, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Kamel
thanks for the input, someone in the irc channel advised me to get the radeon 9600 pro. i think i'll do that. i want the best card i can get without paying $200+ for it, and the 9600 pro seems to fit the suit very well.

thanks again for all your help, i am going to do what i can now to get a new system. i am going to get an amd athlon xp 2600 w/333fsb, 512mb of pc2100 ram, an nForce motherboard, and a 350w powersupply.... of course this is just a concept, and god only knows if i'll actually be able to get it or not, lol.

I would suggest at least a 400 or 450 watt powersupply they are only about 20 bucks more. Power is important for system stability I have personaly had bad experiences with using weak power supplys, it could fry your system. Thats what happend to me lol.;)

Kamel
10-18-03, 11:52 AM
heh, i was gonna wait until a few weeks, probably even months, to begin with.

about the power supply, i am debating on the case i get -- each come with different psu's. i am probably getting one with a 400 watt powersupply.