which to buy.........

[anxdiety]

Well its upgrade time yet again and this time i am thinking of either the radeon 8500le or the 9000(not pro). The last dealings i had with an ati card were pretty horrible but that was back in the days of the rage pro where you had to write bat files and hack drivers just to get quake 1 to run 30 fps on a 166. I am also worried about system incompatabilities and tv out. I am not a huge gamer and prefer to stay a step or 2 behind on the latest since its the most affordable and most games run just fine on that kind of hardware anyways. I'm heading towards ATI because from my experience with the age old rage pro they have better dvd quality and video picture. Overclocking is not a priority either i just want it to run and run well. Since my prefered gaming resolustion is 1024 i don't need a 9700 or a ti 4600. My sys specs are as follows:

Abit kt7a-r (via chipset for those that remember these awesome boards)
1.333 anthlon
asus v7100 geforce2 mx
512 pc 133 ram
40 gig maxtor hd 7200
sblive value
linksys nic card
ati tv wonder pci

[marqmajere]

I'd actually spend the money on a good 128 meg GeForce 4 Ti. You'll have fewer headaches in the long run. I run an 8500 retail and I wish I would have bought a Ti card. (Which should be here Thursday :D ) If you're dead set on an ATI card though, get the 8500. The 9000 is just a watered version.

Marqus

[thcdru2k]

any old 128 mb ti4200 will do you fine. just overclock it. they run at lowest only like 120 bucks.

[saturnotaku]

I checked a Canadian parts store and using a CDN $1.60 - US $1 conversion, the 8500 runs about US $105 while the Ti4200 is about $185. If you can see your way clear to spending the extra money, go for the Ti4200. If not, the 8500 is the better card of the two you mentioned as it's not gimped like the 9000 is.

[thcdru2k]

eek the price is that bad, defiantely radeon 8500.

[anxdiety]

well the problem is that i am really strapt on the cash front and the local store's cheapest price is 299 for a geforce 4ti and 199 for a geforce 3 ti 200. is the extra 30 bux for a geforce 3 ti worth the minimal frame rate increase and little loss in dvd and video quality? and as far as the headaches of ATI goes it can't be as bad as the really old days of having to combine driver sets to get over 1 fps in the original quake so i am not that worried about their drivers

[sbp]

Between the Radeon 8500LE or the Radeon 9000, I'd get the 8500LE.

Reading this thread gives me deja vu.
http://www.pcabusers.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21881

Maybe that Canadian or another there can help you get the videocard cheaper.

[jbirney]

Actaully the GF3 Ti200 is slower. I would not get that. They ment the GF4 Ti4200 and that is the faster of the two. The GF4 is not that much faster when you consider it costs 1/3 more than the 8500.

I also think that a 8500 le is a better choice for you given the fact you wanted to minimize cost. There is nice review over at Beyond3d (which is still down at the moment) that compares the two. I think you will find it worth your time to check it one when the site is back on-line to see how close they are and where they are different. This way you can make the call that suites your needs.

[Gator]

get ANY GF4 TI4200, even the 64mb versions will run circles around the Radeon 8500 & 9000.

GF4 TI4200 starts at $125us according to pricewatch.com, but I'm not sure about Canadian money

[sebazve]

Go and get the 8500le. No matter what people say the 8500le will be always much cheaper.
ATI drivers now are the same as Nividas . Believe me all this non sense about poor ATI drivers and much better Nvidia ones is all BS!!. It all depends on luck and the infinite posible configuration around. Some people got it work right away and others have to work it a little. The same happens with Nvidias drivers.

Seems that you are short on cash so my adivise is to get that 8500 and you will be very happy with it its a great card for that money.

The only downside is that AA performance is not very good (anything higher than x2 will hurt a lot) comparing to ti cards but you would get the best quality AF for free which ti cards dont offer.

[sebazve]

ah i forget about Truform. Its really sweet feature, its really working now and lots of games support it

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by sebazve
ah i forget about Truform. Its really sweet feature, its really working now and lots of games support it

Eh, no? where are you making this stuff up from? ATI's drivers are the same as Nvidia's now? huh? when? I mean, they have improved, but are nowhere near the quality of nVIDIA's, err... except for the Det 40's, but those are beta and not official. But c'mon, ATI still has some driver issues, on top of that they have a AGP 8x issue, and they have also had a power supply issue with their cards. The power supply that ships with the 9700 gives alot of people cold boots. Looks like ATI really rushed these cards out into the market to beat nVIDIA for a while, what I am asking myself however is, if they made these mistakes when rushing the card out into the market, what other corners did they cut? But we are not talking about that card here, we are talking about the 9000 and 8500LE, personally, I wouldn't get either, I would get a MSI Geforce4 Ti 4200, great value, I got one for $120, the 128 meg version. And they come with Vid-in and out already and have great bundles and it is an overall great deal. You can't go wrong with those.:D

[Gator]

my complaint on ATI cards is simple, I wanna be able to place card in AGP slot, turn on pc, install software, start playing. Done.

In my experience the R8500 was a nightmare of driver updates and tweaks to get most but not all of things I wanted to work correctly (and with glitches no less). This is even after the amazing Catalyst drivers (yawn).

So I went GF4 TI4400, I placed in slot, press ON, install software... and everythign magically worked.

Which cards will I go to for gaming in the future? Hmmm :rolleyes:

[StealthHawk]

guys, he said the gf3 ti200 was $199 where he lives, which means the gf4 ti4200 should be even more expensive.

with that said, since the price is the same, the R8500LE is a MUCH better buy than the R9000(not even pro)

[jbirney]

, on top of that they have a AGP 8x issue, and they have also had a power supply issue with their cards. The power supply that ships with the 9700 gives alot of people cold boots.

Last word according to Kyle over at HardOCP is that is looking to be an issue with the mobos as the only other cards that support x8 APG (Xaber) are having the same issues. Here is his quote:

"From what we have seen here and from what other webmasters have shared with us it does seem to be the mainboard and PSU builders "fault" that certain compatibility issues exist."


Funny thing is that when the Orignal GF shipped there were very simular problems with it not working on certian Antholon mobos at the time. Turned out to be the mobos fault. Funny now that the shoes on the other foot its do to ATI rushing the card out?

[Megatron]

Originally posted by |TX|-LORD-EX-BU
The power supply that ships with the 9700 gives alot of people cold boots


The power supply that ships with the 9700???

<looks through his 9700 box again>

Hmmm..did i get ripped? I didnt get any power supply with my 9700.....:D

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I have an AGP 8x motherboard(MSI 648MAX) and a 500W power supply(PowMax 500W) and I put a 9700 in the AGP slot. I used the power thing and plugged it in, even on my computer I had to turn it on and off a bunch of times in order to get it to turn on. Once I unplugged the 9700's power and used the power from my 500W power supply the problem went away. The way I see it, ATI put out something useless that can hinder their card's overall stability. I have a few friends that have had that problem, and as you can see, I do not own the 9700 anymore. Thank god for RMA. Bring on the NV30!:D

[Rogozhin]

geforce 4 ti 4200 doesn't run circles around a 8500.

there is a minimal performace advantage between my 8500 Le clocked at 300/300 and the msi g4 ti4400 and the gainward ti4200 that i returned. It is simply not justifiable to spend another $50-$100 on a g4 card when an oc'd 8500 can keep up (plus have better iq and dvd, i know because I compared all three cards on the same monitor in the same computer).

And definately get the 8500 I can help you with some mods if you'd like.
:)

r0g0

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by Rogozhin
geforce 4 ti 4200 doesn't run circles around a 8500.

there is a minimal performace advantage between my 8500 Le clocked at 300/300 and the msi g4 ti4400 and the gainward ti4200 that i returned. It is simply not justifiable to spend another $50-$100 on a g4 card when an oc'd 8500 can keep up (plus have better iq and dvd, i know because I compared all three cards on the same monitor in the same computer).

And definately get the 8500 I can help you with some mods if you'd like.
:)

r0g0

Yeah, the 8500 would be a good buy. But I think the reason you had a bad experience with the Ti 4200 was because of the brand that you bought. I mean, I hate Gainward. MSI has a great bundle, plenty of free games and some nice features on their card.:D

[anxdiety]

Well its looking like i am going to go with the 8500le as soon as i get paid. Damn i wish i was american making what i make now in canadian since i could have one hell of a rig. i should be able to get it a little cheaper than 169 since the 2 stores selling them at that price are across the street from each other and you can walk back and forth to get the bettter deal. the reason i won't save more and go for the ti line is that its not really worth it since gaming should be about playing the game and not staring at the nice textures on the ground and getting your own but fragged. i play games in 1024 so no matter which card i go to that is newer than this g2mx i'll still get max results according to a lot of online benchies i have been reading around. also is ATI still on top of their game as far as multimedia is concerned? back in the day they were the kings for DVD and video and sucked in games. Now that they are catching up with the gaming end of things did they let the good ole multimedia aspect fall?

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by anxdiety
also is ATI still on top of their game as far as multimedia is concerned? back in the day they were the kings for DVD and video and sucked in games. Now that they are catching up with the gaming end of things did they let the good ole multimedia aspect fall?

As long as you use ATI's Multimedia Center for all your DVD needs you'll be good to go. Any other soft DVD player sucks on the 8500, believe me I've tried.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by anxdiety
Well its looking like i am going to go with the 8500le as soon as i get paid. Damn i wish i was american making what i make now in canadian since i could have one hell of a rig. i should be able to get it a little cheaper than 169 since the 2 stores selling them at that price are across the street from each other and you can walk back and forth to get the bettter deal. the reason i won't save more and go for the ti line is that its not really worth it since gaming should be about playing the game and not staring at the nice textures on the ground and getting your own but fragged. i play games in 1024 so no matter which card i go to that is newer than this g2mx i'll still get max results according to a lot of online benchies i have been reading around. also is ATI still on top of their game as far as multimedia is concerned? back in the day they were the kings for DVD and video and sucked in games. Now that they are catching up with the gaming end of things did they let the good ole multimedia aspect fall?

Well, I don't know what benchmarks you have been looking at, but as far as I have seen the Ti line has been mopping the floor with the 8500 models. The 9700 is another story...:D Oh yeah, I upgraded from a GF2 mx to a GF4 ti 4200 on a P3 700 Mhz rig, and I saw a huge difference not only in performance, but in quality also.

[anxdiety]

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q2/020418/vgacharts-04.html

woo hoo a wh0le 7fps is such a mopping up. I am trying to be more objective than looking in only one direction that is nvidia.
even tho it is a tom's hard where review its still one of the only ones out that compares ALL current cards in one big list that is actually legible. and simply compare any gains on upwards from my curent original g2mx. Its also due to the multimedia aspect of things since i remember the tv out on my ancient rage pro card was better than the current g2mx i have right now. i'd prefer a machine that was all rounded rather than just a gaming rig. hence the reason i am leaning towards ati.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Hey don't get your panties all up in a bunch, it is just computer hardware and even so, I am just giving my opinion and trying to help you out.

[anxdiety]

no worries and thnx for the advice. Its a little hard to get the panties in a bunch when you are practically a nudist anyways :p