Dear Juice,

[ibGoodEnuf]

I can't believe that you closed that thread. I can understand comaraderie, but I do not understand blind loyalty to another mod for the simple reason that they are just that. If one were to look objectively at the responses of a certain moderator, they would find that the bounds and responsibilities of moderation have been severely overstepped. If you want to turn a blind eye and pretend this isnt the case, well I suppose that is fine. It saddens me to see this though as I have formed such a high opinion of you and your opinions to this point. Not the first time my pollyannaish attitude has led me astray. Go ahead and close this too if you wish, just know that this behavior is quickly alienating one of the oldest members of this community. I click through on your ads to help support the site and refer others, but if this heavyhanded behavior continues I will have to reconsider my position in refering to you as one of the best fan sites out there. This is still a belief that I currently hold, however if moderator actions are left unchecked, or worse yet, endorsed by all of the moderator staff, then I will likely no longer feel this way about nV News. I find this sad, much like losing a friend.

As far as your suggestion that I take the matter up directly with the mod in question; I see this as counter-productive. I wish for those that feel the same as I to read my views and offer feedback, whether pro or con. When you as a moderator close a thread, you censor the abilities of others to offer opinions. Hmmmm, something you really want to do?

[volt]

We are angels compared to mods at other sites. :)

[AshG]

I find this situation much like my lower grade level classes. The students love everything so long as they are allowed to do as they please, what they please, when they please. When a modicum or behavior modification or reinforcement is brought forth, then there's generally some type of outcry and backlash. Standard 2nd level emotional development characteristics according to Piaget.

That being said, I refer you to the EULA and ToS. When you registerted, you committed to an understanding that posts could be edited, moved, and/or closed for any reason. This is standard fare for any online community. Please be aware that the situation in which you are participating is operating fully withint he grounds set forth by the EULA and ToS.

(been a while, gotta say it...) Dig?

[ibGoodEnuf]

I know you are Dirx, but you cant possibly be of the opinion that there isnt room for improvement.

[ibGoodEnuf]

Ash,

I appreciate your input, but your assessment of my motivation, while sounding interesting, couldn't be further from factual when applied to what I am trying to accomplish. I am also fine with all of these type of responses. If you dont want my patronage, just tell me. I will honor your collective wishes.

[LoRD.MuAD'diB]

While I understand that in any police state like environment, there has to be an element of control over unruly actions, that's simply not what's going on here. I see someone expressing their frustrations over recent events, and being shut out for it. Angels compared to mods on other sites, perhaps. But your certainly not Gods. Why are opinions being cut down as immature? Do the opinions of only the moderators count here at nV News? Why is it ok that a moderator lashes out at someone for something as simple as inquiring about a 3dMark score, but when a user posts concerns about the actions of a moderator they're accused of having the cognitive capacity of a six year old? It seems to me that this is a double standard. And at that a fairly large and particularily disturbing one.

In one thread, somebody asked about their 3dmark score with relation to their hardware. Here is someone who respects the opinion of the patrons of your message board. This person is met with the general posts. Some say it's good, some say it's average, etc. Then a moderator comes along and basically tells the person to go play a game and stop wasting everyone's time by posting insignificant nonsense. When questioned about this outburst, this moderator replies by saying they're sorry, but are having a bad week at work.

I'm new to this board, but is this the kind of behavior I can expect to see out of moderators? Are the validity of my opinions and concerns dependant on how your week is going? This, to me, doesn't constitute fair and impartial treatment. And if it's typical of the administration of the nV News forums, I feel sorry for the new users whom you are making an effort to "protect" by shuffling posts around and closing threads.

[Matthyahuw]

This board is moderated a little more strictly than other boards, so we have some better content here for everyone...
Wherelse can you get ask a question at another fansite where you get some good feedback?
Try asking a nice nVidia question at Rage3D...or try asking ANYTHING at [H]OCP, your answer gets lost in insults and spam and all the other crap.

Now as far as Saturn, we had a talk about this a while back, and if you read the whole thread (if it's the thread I'm thinking of), he did apologize for his actions...

That's the way the owner wants the forums to be run, even at the cost of popularity, if you don't like it, then I'm sorry, there is R3D [H]OCP, Anand, and all the rest of the spam zones waiting for you...

[ibGoodEnuf]

Matt,

I do not frequent hard ocp because of Mike's problems with Kyle. When Mike tells me he has read my complaints and found none valid and that my patronage is unimportant to him as you have inicated it is you, I will leave you and your site alone.

[LoRD.MuAD'diB]

Thank you for being somewhat more diplomatic about it than AshG. Frankly his "RTFM OR DIE" mentality is an annoyance. As for the owner of the site, I can't speak for them. If they want their patrons insulted, and opinions stiffled, that's up to them. And certainly you can't be blamed for doing the job you've been given. But in the same spirit that the general forum should be renamed "Water Cooler", the word moderator should be changed to something a little more appropriate as well. The word I'm thinking of is too easily mistaken for other, historicaly infamous meanings (despite it's actual meaning), so I'll refrain from using the word.

Your efforts to defend your own are admirabe. But I ask you, should a moderator have to appologize for something like that? Is not a mod someone who is supposed to be professional enough to avoid such situations? A missunderstanding every once in a while is one thing, but as I understand Saturn has a long history (roughly two years) of bashing people who even mention 3dMark. Maybe your rules (or rather the ones you're given) are a bit more strict than other's. If this keeps the board cleaner, then ok. But to repeatedly bash people for something as simple as their choice in benchmarking software, is simply uncalled for. Is it so hard to simply not comment on those threads, rather than seek them out and flame?

[AshG]

Yeah, sorry for coming across like I have stick shoved up my arse.

When in doubt about a situation, rules and regulations are the only clear discourse of action that can be taken. It sucks, I know, but they're there for a reason.

As for the benchmarking thread Saturn closed, looking back at it I can see why. Is there a reason to call someone "asshopper"? I really don't think so, at least not outside of Open Forum.

As for yourself, Mr. DuneGuy (since I don't feel like slaughtering the spelling of your name)...

Quote: You, my friend, have what we call an inferiority complex. You see someone with the ability to prove you wrong with a simple statement, and suddenly the whole world is against you. Do us all a favor and get off your soap box, put the pipe down, grab a beer, and just relax for a change. Just because you don't have the cognitive capacity to get the upmost performance out of your machine, doesn't mean that the rest of us are cheating for understanding and embracing such a daunting concept as overclocking. Get a grip man. If I can break 10k with a Radeon 8500, and your only getting 11.7 with a 9700, there's something seriously wrong with either you or your rig (or both).

That sounds so like me it's just scary. Granted, personal jabs aren't really that cool outside of OF, bu you were right to a point. But Saturn closed the thread to prevent any more of that type of discourse, and I have to say I agreed. It was becoming very unbecoming of the forums.

*sigh* Yeah, for some reason most of the mods are uptight right now. Well, uptight over here... But that's another story for another time. Will we cool off? I don't know. But for those people who DO know me, I've really calmed down over the past year. Since I was "Mod"ified, I've moved, deleted, and edited more posts than any other mod at this site most likely. I've given up on that and just let things run their course until they reach the boundaries now. No more heartburn that way =)

Again, sorry for the stock "read the rules" thingamabob. It's an automatic security thing when Idon't have time to completely analyze a situation. What would you expect from a middle school teacher with three generations of police leading up to him? =P

[|JuiceZ|]

ibGoodEnuf I apologize for closing your thread and I understand and respect the point yer trying to make but the last time a thread like that was started, it ended up being a "Members vs Mods" and I didn't want that to happen again.

As for the particulars on the issue between you and sat, the other mods are a lot more knowledgable about it than I, so I'll just sit back and watch for now.

[-=Gib-McFragger=-]

I erm................um.............have no idea what is going on, so I will just sit here and suck my thumb..........

[ibGoodEnuf]

I want to personally thank the mods that took the time to respond to my threads. I can only imagine how difficult your jobs are and sympathize. I just needed to make a few observations. I feel my position has been heard at this point and I am glad. I am not here to flame, but make no mistake; if I see something written that is incorrect or misleading, I will pull that poster's covers. Again, Juice, I have been visiting this site alongside ya for a long time now and have always had nothing but the uptmost respect for you. You have always been kind and funny. Most importantly you have always been there to assist people with questions. I hope no hard feelings exist between myself and any other member of this board.

[|JuiceZ|]

no hard feelings here either man ;)

[Matthyahuw]

ibGoodEnuf, I wasn't directing my post to you...I was mainly speaking to LoRD.MuAD'diB who I just deleted 2 of his posts 2min earlier...I've had no issues with you in the past, and consider you a valuable member here. You had some very valid points, our only concern is that you should have contacted him via PM, that's all, have a good one...

[saturnotaku]

as I understand Saturn has a long history (roughly two years) of bashing people who even mention 3dMark.

I can see how you might have received this perception because of that thread and I believe I had explained myself in it (as Matthy alluded in one of his earlier posts). You, Lord Duneguy were not part of this message board before the hack and before the conversion to the vbulletin system so I think you're being unfair with that comment.

All actions that are taken on this message board are done with consideration to the whole forum membership. You all are more than welcome to start another thread to discuss with Megatron and whomever you wish about the Radeon 9700 and 3dmark. As long as you can keep a civilized conversation without remarks like this:

You, my friend, have what we call an inferiority complex. You see someone with the ability to prove you wrong with a simple statement, and suddenly the whole world is against you. Do us all a favor and get off your soap box, put the pipe down, grab a beer, and just relax for a change. Just because you don't have the cognitive capacity to get the upmost performance out of your machine, doesn't mean that the rest of us are cheating for understanding and embracing such a daunting concept as overclocking. Get a grip man. If I can break 10k with a Radeon 8500, and your only getting 11.7 with a 9700, there's something seriously wrong with either you or your rig (or both).

Then we won't have a problem. But should stuff like this happen, it (and you) will be dealt with in the appropriate manner. Like many of life's decisions, it's your choice, but be prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions.

[LoRD.MuAD'diB]

First off, let's not let this thread turn into some mods vs. the people kind of thing, as JuiceZ has pointed out can happen so easily. Everyone here has remained civil so far, and I also thank you all for that. I hope that when all is said and done, none of you harbor any hard feelings towards me either.

And now for the much anticipated, fun part... (remind me to flame myself later for making fun of me)

Saturn. As I stated in my PM to you a week ago, a friend turned me on to this site and this forum. He's a long time friend, who has been a member of this forum for several years. Your right, I wasn't a member before the hack or the BB system change. But he was. And it just so happens that he was berated about two years ago by you when he posted his 3dMark score and asked how it compared to other people here. If what happened a week ago had been an isolated incident, I'd have thought little or nothing about it. Especially after you explained that you were having a rough week and appologized. But it is something that's ongoing, at least by my understanding.

As for the thread you closed, first let me say I'm honored that so many mods feel the need to quote me. I think Mat saw it for what it was, a post that was made in jest. Similar to how friends good talk to each other. There's a difference between attacking someone and poking fun. Honestly, looking back at the post I still don't see anything wrong with it, but I do see how people who are set in the flame first, think later mentality would have missed the point. I don't blame you for closing the thread. But I didn't really appreciate the response I got to my (rather long) PM. That's why I decided to do things in threads, I feel that this is something that all the mods should have a say in. It's just too difficult to bring in different opinions in personal messages, and I feel it stands to be resolved better, with less bad blood, this way.

And for christ's sake, it's LoRD.MuAD'diB.. copy and paste people. A great man once said, "Use the instrument panel Luke, it's what it's there for". Of course I don't spell out any of your handles in their entirety, so my less than easily pronouncable name is fair game. ; )

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by LoRD.MuAD'diB
But it is something that's ongoing, at least by my understanding.


I believe I've pointed out previously that before this site was attacked and the forums wiped out that I couldn't even begin to count the number of threads that were posted in the video card, driver (and now current) benchmarking forums that related to 3dmark scores. I'll say again, it was unfair of me to come down on someone else for it, but I had simply become sick and tired of people asking about 3dmark. I know this will sound self-serving but I think I had expressed how a whole lot of people feel about that particular program. I'm of the opinion that it's useful for testing overclocking and stressing a video card subsystem, but the score is meaningless, especially since there are so many cheaters nowadays.

Okay, I'm glad that's out of my system. I'm not going to talk about it any more.

I hope that when all is said and done, none of you harbor any hard feelings towards me either.

We all appreciate the rational discourse that is taking place here. To be honest, when I read that Matthy had removed two of your posts, I was going to have the mods put you on our watch list. But since things seem to be working out well, this is not going to be necessary. I hope this matter has been resolved to everyone's satisfaction and we can continue in our dominance over Rage3D. :p (j/k)

Peace.

[LoRD.MuAD'diB]

Tell ya what. Since the newest guy who just signed up (what was his name again) and wants to know how his 3dmark score stacks up to the others here can't help the 18 million people before him who posted the same thing.. and since emotions are impossible to express to everybody (especially the type of people who visit message boards), let me propose this sort of compromise. I'll watch what I post, and avoid posting anything that can be taken the wrong way, if you avoid yelling at people about 3dmark. That way neither of us inadvertently makes a new user feel unwelcomed here.

As for the two posts, one of them was my bad. The other one was more of a misunderstanding than anything. Matthyahuw and I have talked in PMs, and are both cool with what happened (I think). He still hasn't really answered me wether he thought my joke was funny or not though.

Umm.. I think that's it. Sorry got sidetracked. That happens when a very attractive office manager walks up and starts talking about tanning lines and her decision on whether or not to where certain articles of clothing (or none at all) when she tans. Very distracting. But trust me, it's well worth the visual.

Anyway if any other mods, or -=Gib-McFragger=- have any issues, let me know and I'll address them. As I hope you can see I'm not afraid to defend myself with actual working logic, nor am I afraid to back down when I'm wrong.

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by LoRD.MuAD'diB
I'll watch what I post, and avoid posting anything that can be taken the wrong way, if you avoid yelling at people about 3dmark. That way neither of us inadvertently makes a new user feel unwelcomed here.


Done and done.

/offers handshake to LoRD.MuAD'diB :)

[sbp]

hmm I thought this might be the nV News.net version of an advice column. http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/wink2.gif

"Dear Juice,

Some people left all this beer behind after a party. http://home.earthlink.net/~sbp777/pics/beerBooz2.jpg
What should be done with it?

signed,

Mr. Anonymous Beerdrinker"
http://home.earthlink.net/~sbp777/pics/drunksmile.gif

[LORD-eX-Bu]

WHOA!:eek:

[-=Gib-McFragger=-]

Originally posted by LoRD.MuAD'diB
Tell ya what. Since the newest guy who just signed up (what was his name again) and wants to know how his 3dmark score stacks up to the others here can't help the 18 million people before him who posted the same thing.. and since emotions are impossible to express to everybody (especially the type of people who visit message boards), let me propose this sort of compromise. I'll watch what I post, and avoid posting anything that can be taken the wrong way, if you avoid yelling at people about 3dmark. That way neither of us inadvertently makes a new user feel unwelcomed here.

As for the two posts, one of them was my bad. The other one was more of a misunderstanding than anything. Matthyahuw and I have talked in PMs, and are both cool with what happened (I think). He still hasn't really answered me wether he thought my joke was funny or not though.

Umm.. I think that's it. Sorry got sidetracked. That happens when a very attractive office manager walks up and starts talking about tanning lines and her decision on whether or not to where certain articles of clothing (or none at all) when she tans. Very distracting. But trust me, it's well worth the visual.

Anyway if any other mods, or -=Gib-McFragger=- have any issues, let me know and I'll address them. As I hope you can see I'm not afraid to defend myself with actual working logic, nor am I afraid to back down when I'm wrong.

No worries mate. ;)

[Kruno]

I'm on the mods side :D

It's sad that threads can turn up into members vs mods. We are a community on these forums and when you click the agree button you are under those rules. That rules govern what you can/can't do. If you don't like them then do not click the "agree" button. :)

Originally posted by |JuiceZ|
ibGoodEnuf I apologize for closing your thread and I understand and respect the point yer trying to make but the last time a thread like that was started, it ended up being a "Members vs Mods" and I didn't want that to happen again.

As for the particulars on the issue between you and sat, the other mods are a lot more knowledgable about it than I, so I'll just sit back and watch for now.