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ReDeeMeR
10-23-03, 12:59 PM
GF4 is being neglet by Nv this whole year, in fact all I've seen is worse preformance with each new drivers :( while ATi keeps upping speed even for lowly 7000-7500, way to go shmucks

If this is what will happen to FX then screw that ****, the card needs "specialy optimizd" drivers to put a fight to ATi products, what is to become with FX when they start hyping nv40??? They'll just forget it like they did with previous gen cards after a year and you'll be stuck with crap preformance because the FORCEDware will be all optimized for Geforce 6800... meh

DarcSchnider
10-24-03, 09:05 AM
Well I dunno what you are complaining about the offical release version actually increased all my bench scores up a lot. I'm getting over 1.5k more in all 3dmarks, as well my aquamark increased 20%

jonjay
10-24-03, 09:24 AM
I posted on the exact same thing. I lost performance because of it on my GeForce4 ti4200...I agree the image quality is better with these drivers however the performance I lost for the quality trade-off is ridiculous. Really am annoyed the way CATALYST drivers even increase their older generation of cards and ForceWare // Detonator seems to decrease performance after version 44.03 for any card pre-fx aka GF4/3/2/1. I agree totally agree with you that when new GeForce card comes they just neglect all the FX cards and so forth...needs to be addressed...the issue is getting pushed aside to much.

ReDeeMeR
10-24-03, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by DarcSchnider
Well I dunno what you are complaining about the offical release version actually increased all my bench scores up a lot. I'm getting over 1.5k more in all 3dmarks, as well my aquamark increased 20%

What card are you using?

StealthHawk
10-24-03, 03:27 PM
Old cards like the gf4 are tapped out.

ReDeeMeR
10-25-03, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Old cards like the gf4 are tapped out.

What's your point?

micronX
10-25-03, 12:27 AM
I really dont see how people could be complaining. The newer drivers have made my Ti4200 faster then it's ever been before, and I'm still playing modern games with acceptable framerates. People either (a.) like to complain, or (b.) dont know how to set their machines up properly.

StealthHawk
10-25-03, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
What's your point?

My point is that you shouldn't be complaining. You shouldn't expect improvements for your card with new drivers because the cards were tapped long ago. NVIDIA is focusing on NV3x cards now, as they should. It makes better business sense(although I can understand your frustration) and it is also needed(drivers for NV3x have hardly been perfect).

This has happened every single generation. New drivers do nothing for old generation cards and only help the current generation generally. It's happened ever since the TNTs were superceded by the GeForce. There's no reason to expect a change now.

Shamrock
10-25-03, 07:14 AM
my brother's GeForce 3 Ti200 gained performance...A BUNCH for the GF3

he gained almost 8 fps in C&C: Generals, and Halo is above 40fps (800x600) in heavy battles it dips to 29 though. But still not bad for a GeForce 3! Not to mention the IQ is better than even the 30.82 dets he was using.

RAY16
10-25-03, 09:14 AM
The 52.16 drivers make SOF2 freeze when you join a punkbuster server. I went back to the 45.23's and it doesn't happen anymore.

digitalwanderer
10-25-03, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by RAY16
The 52.16 drivers make SOF2 freeze when you join a punkbuster server. I went back to the 45.23's and it doesn't happen anymore.
That's a fog issue I think I read, the new drivers don't render the fog so the punkbuster software won't allow 'em to play.

ChrisRay
10-25-03, 09:55 AM
Well Nvidia has done this with the Geforce/4 The Geforce 1/2 and the TNT series so I'm not surprised at all. My Geforce 4 TI 4200 runs fine however.

Gargr
10-25-03, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
My point is that you shouldn't be complaining. You shouldn't expect improvements for your card with new drivers because the cards were tapped long ago. NVIDIA is focusing on NV3x cards now, as they should. It makes better business sense(although I can understand your frustration) and it is also needed(drivers for NV3x have hardly been perfect).

This has happened every single generation. New drivers do nothing for old generation cards and only help the current generation generally. It's happened ever since the TNTs were superceded by the GeForce. There's no reason to expect a change now.

Actually they do, i get BSODs with 45.xx drivers and kicked from CS servers with 5x.xx
nice

Templar
10-25-03, 10:28 AM
There's no more speed to be made with the 4x line of cards.. any increase in any benchmark will be a fraud increase or an "optimization". Want more speed buy a new card. Even Nvidia knows there's a limit to how much fraud speed increase they can produce with new drivers and as the 4x line is concerned.. it has had it's 4 or 5 magical 20% increases, another one and you'll be left with raw polies flying on your screen.

Simon

jonjay
10-25-03, 12:33 PM
Your arguments have a flaw in them because ATi seem to make their older generation of cards such as the 8500 all the way to 7000 increase in performance. They always state increase in performance ACROSS THE BOARD aka for all their cards. Fair enough maybe speed increases are not possible anymore with the Geforce4 range, but speed should be lessened on the Geforce4 range either. A lot of people still have older cards and like any customer don't expect to get less performance from UPGRADING their drivers. I am not trying to flame nVidia for the sake of flaming, I always been an nVidia user...however I feel this subject needs to be addressed as newer games will need newer drivers to work and us geforce4 users expect our speed to be consistent and compatibility to be constant.

Templar
10-25-03, 01:52 PM
my arguement doesn't have a flaw and your post underlines that.. ATi boards have rarely gotten the magical 20% which NV manages to reproduce any time any one else but them do something in the graphics arena. ATi's speed bumps have not been nearly as vulgar has NV's "optimizations" and therefore the speed increases have been less and usually not at the expense of the image quality.

Therefore they're able to give older cards more boost as their Driver teams grew and the products matured, since they've done it more incremental unlike the magical quantum leaps as NV. Notably I'd like to point out the era when the 3x and 4x lines were the reigning board and 3dMark 2001 the DE FACTO standard, just how the managed to make every driver release give their fanbois 1k boost. Today we all know how the managed to pull that one off.

Is there anything left to gain in terms of speed from the old 4x line of cards? No not in terms of any major speed increase but they can improve the gaming experience with them by improving the drivers, raising min. fps count and such in titles. NV has however milked everyting out of their line pretty quick. My old TNT2 gave me blood stains in CounterStrike snapping to grids when they weren't directly infront of me, that's how aggressive NV was way back then. They pretty much exhaust everything right away.

Simon

RAY16
10-25-03, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
That's a fog issue I think I read, the new drivers don't render the fog so the punkbuster software won't allow 'em to play.


Doesn't that only effect GeForce FX cards? I'm on a GeForce 3 and I got fog with all the 5x.xx drivers. Too bad I had to get rid of them, I noticed a big IQ difference between the 50 series and the 40 series.

This UDA crap pisses me off. They should just make a driver for each card that has settings that are right for the cards the drivers are made for. Its more work for the nVidia driver team, but at least the user knows the drivers are made specificly for their card.

StealthHawk
10-25-03, 03:48 PM
I have always acknowledged that in special cases(new games) you may very well see an improvement with new drivers even on old cards because the drivers haven't been optimized yet for new games.

Comparing NVIDIA and ATI seem silly, because NVIDIA's drivers in the past were much, much better than ATI's drivers. So it's not surprising that old ATI cards may see some gains here and there as ATI's drivers become cleaner, more stable, and more optimized. There was more to gain.

Templar
10-25-03, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
I have always acknowledged that in special cases(new games) you may very well see an improvement with new drivers even on old cards because the drivers haven't been optimized yet for new games.

Comparing NVIDIA and ATI seem silly, because NVIDIA's drivers in the past were much, much better than ATI's drivers. So it's not surprising that old ATI cards may see some gains here and there as ATI's drivers become cleaner, more stable, and more optimized. There was more to gain.

Totally agree on this one here too.. ATI's drivers were so bad LOL that they still can improve those old cards.

subbo
10-25-03, 05:26 PM
Yeah as a former ati lover, I can tell you ATI has alot untapped resources to find with their driver.. hell, the Radeon 64MB DDR (first radeon) is still hampered by driver bugs in many places :P