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Malfunction
10-27-03, 06:17 PM
Tom's is funny huh....lol! :D

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html#opengl_benchmarks

Benchmarks under Windows XP - UPDATED

Update Sept 24,2003: Unfortunately we have made a mistake in the original article: In addition to the official P4 EE 3.2GHz we had included benchmark scores of the P4 Extreme 3.4GHz and 3.6GHz. These values were planned for a future THG article and were not intended to be included here. We would like to apologize especially to those readers who misinterpreted our charts. The two bars of the P4 Extreme 3.4GHz and 3.6GHz have now been removed. However, this issue does not affect our conclusion as we have only compared the official P4 3.2GHz EE to all other test candidates in our original article. For your information: The press sample of the P4 Extreme provided by Intel does not have a multiplier lock and is already designed for higher clock speeds.


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=222476

Peace,

:D

B&R
10-27-03, 11:36 PM
Only for older games.

The Baron
10-28-03, 12:00 AM
Q3A also uses SSE on P4s where it does not in AthlonXPs. If those DLLs where SSE is forced are to be believed, AthlonXPs are way faster when they use SSE as well.

Malfunction
10-28-03, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Q3A also uses SSE on P4s where it does not in AthlonXPs. If those DLLs where SSE is forced are to be believed, AthlonXPs are way faster when they use SSE as well.

However Athlon64 has MMX, 3D Now!, SSE, SSE II? What gives?

Peace,

:confused:

Viral
10-28-03, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Malfunction
However Athlon64 has MMX, 3D Now!, SSE, SSE II? What gives?

Peace,

:confused:

So do AXP's, besides the SSE2. The problem is that when Q3 SSE support was added, the only processor with SSE was the P3. So the code looked to see whether a P3 or higher pentium was being used, and then enabled SSE. Then with the AXP, came SSE capability, but the recognition procedure in Q3 was not changed, so AXP processors did not use SSE in Q3.

Its still the same for all AMD processors, whether SSE is supported by them or not. Recently, dll's for Q3 were released for Q3 that enabled SSE use for AMD SSE supporting processors. However, as these dll's also slightly optimise for AMD processors, a fair comparison cannot be made. IMO Q3 should no longer be used as a benchmark because of this and the fact that it is too damn old.

Malfunction
10-28-03, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Viral
So do AXP's, besides the SSE2. The problem is that when Q3 SSE support was added, the only processor with SSE was the P3. So the code looked to see whether a P3 or higher pentium was being used, and then enabled SSE. Then with the AXP, came SSE capability, but the recognition procedure in Q3 was not changed, so AXP processors did not use SSE in Q3.

Its still the same for all AMD processors, whether SSE is supported by them or not. Recently, dll's for Q3 were released for Q3 that enabled SSE use for AMD SSE supporting processors. However, as these dll's also slightly optimise for AMD processors, a fair comparison cannot be made. IMO Q3 should no longer be used as a benchmark because of this and the fact that it is too damn old.

That's right, I completely forgot about that as it was mentioned in this forum about 3 months ago or so. ;) Oops...lol.

So in essence, you are also saying that UT2K3 should also no longer be used since it also has optimizations for AMD CPU's as well.

Peace,

:)

-=DVS=-
10-28-03, 04:18 AM
So big deal Intel always performed well in Ancient game Quack 3 :rolleyes: who gives a S..... :rofl

Dazz
10-28-03, 11:28 AM
In Quake 3 engine games ONLY Intel processors use SSE. Also AMD still use broken 1st Generation 3D Now! instructions. As such there is no optimizations for none Intel processors in Q3 Engine games.

slickfloater
10-28-03, 01:34 PM
Quake 3, I am quite sure does not use SSE. If any of you are using an Intel P3 with SSE or P4, scroll up in the console to the loading sequence of Quake 3 and see if it says using SSE optimizations or just Pentium Pro optimizations. I'm using an AXP 2400+ so I couldn't tell you if the P3/p4 is supporting SSE in Quake 3.

Btw, many sites report that FX51 and P4 3.2 EE are neck and neck in Quake 3, Tom's reports very high numbers for the P4.

Btw, in Unreal Tournament 2003 a recent game that I would say taxes your system more than any other and has the most sophisticated graphics of any game released for the PC, even a Athlon XP 3200+ edges the P4 EE while FX51 is about 20% faster than the P4 EE. In most games the Athlon 64/FX51 will outrun the P4 EE. Oh yeah, in MDK2 the FX51 is over 50% faster than a P4 EE. A curious anomaly, and of course it's an old engine so not very interesting anymore.

gordon151
10-28-03, 03:16 PM
Be nice if he had posted the pictures to the 9 out of 13 graphics benchmarks that the FX51 beat the P4EE in. Not to mention that the enthusiast orientied 940 boards have resulted in even better performance than the originally intended for workstation/server SK8N they used in the review, which nullifies 3 of the performance wins by the P4EE (since it was between 0-2fps in those 3 benchmarks).

Harnagel
10-28-03, 05:27 PM
I hate to beat a dead dog but from the test configuration page...


Intel 875 (Socket 748) Asus P4C800-E Deluxe Rev: 1.02
Bios: 1011 BETA 006
4 x 256 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (200 MHz)
4 x 256 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (133 MHz)

Nvidia nForce (Socket 462) 2 Ultra Asus A7N8X Rev: 2.00
Bios: 1006
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-3-3-6 (200 MHz)
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (166 MHz)
2 x 512 MB CL 2.0-2-2-5 (133 MHz)

Nvidia nForce 3 150 (Socket 940) Asus SK8N Rev: 1.03
Bios: 1003 BETA 002
2 x 512 MB CL 2.5-3-3-6 (200 MHz)

VIA K8T800 (Socket 940) MSI K8T Master 1-FAR (MS-9130)
Bios: 1.0Bd Rev: 1
2 x 512 MB CL 2.5-3-3-7 (200 MHz)

VIA K8T800 (Socket 754) MSI 8KT Neo (MS-6702)
Bios: 1.0 Rev: 1.0
2 x 512 MB CL2.0-4-4-8 (200 MHz)


and then...


Hard Drive (AMD System) FastTrak S150 TX2plus (Bios: 1.00.0.30)
2 x SATA Maxtor 6Y080M0 (Raid 0)
80 GB / 8 MB Cache / 7200 rpm

Hard Drive (Intel System) Intel FW82801ER ICH5R
2 x SATA Maxtor 6Y080M0 (Raid 0)
80 GB / 8 MB Cache / 7200 rpm


Another article from Tom, another example of what not to do in a review... Give me a break, NF2 boards can take 2-2-2-5 as well as an Athlon64 board. And why would you set up a RAID 0 in a CPU review at all, let alone use two different controllers? Granted it probably doesn't make that much of a difference, but if he can't even set up a PC consistantly, how in the world can he take accurate benchmark results?

saturnotaku
10-28-03, 07:27 PM
Guys, that chart is showing off systems that all run Quake 3 at over 300 frames per second. Who gives a crap? It's not like we're talking about the difference between 30 and 40 here.