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vicious2003
10-27-03, 06:38 PM
I read the preview and looked at the impresive benches by both Nvidia and ATI. I wasn't pleased with how the graphics looked waterd down, blurry, or aliased in the screen side by side. I was impressed though. they caught up in a big way to the 9800 pro. I thought the bench mark was against the 9800xt. I would like to see how they pair off. If the 9800 pro is on level with the 5950. I still think people would be getting a better deal with the ATI since it is most likely cheaper. They would even want to go crazy and get a 500 dollar 9800xt which IMO is probably better. I haven't seen so benchmarks though, so don't take my word for it.

Getting closer NVIDIA keep it up...drive the prices down!

Hellbinder
10-27-03, 06:53 PM
Dude Nvidia is not the ones who are going to drive the prices down. You just wait another month or so... XGi is going to make a big splash and drive some prices down :)

Their high performance SSAA is going to be a popular comodity. They are claiming that its about as fast as the 9700pro's 4x MSAA. Which will be slower than the current big boys.. but.. SSAA is likely to look really nice.

walkndude
10-27-03, 06:59 PM
The system setup shows mike had the 9800 running at 450/850 which is a considerable overclock past both pro and xt models...


850 on the memory is smokin -I'm impressed :)

vicious2003
10-27-03, 07:08 PM
I'm sorry, did you say overclock. Get something made to run at that speed without needing overclocking. Not by overclocking

MikeC
10-27-03, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by walkndude
The system setup shows mike had the 9800 running at 450/850 which is a considerable overclock past both pro and xt models...


850 on the memory is smokin -I'm impressed :)

Sorry for the confusion, but that was a typo. I forgot to change it from the template page I copied from.

The Radeon 9800 Pro was running at its default clock speed of 378MHz/351MHz.

MikeC
10-27-03, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by vicious2003
I wasn't pleased with how the graphics looked waterd down, blurry, or aliased in the screen side by side.

The comparative thumbnails were 2X their original size, which added to the the blurriness. I'm not sure if this can be avoided when an image is being enlarged.

vicious2003
10-27-03, 07:18 PM
I ment that in comparison to the ATI the Nvidia was blurry still and aliased and such. I didn't mean that they were all blurry. Its still a driver issue of course. I hope they fix that. Nvidia must be a pain in the ass to code for since you have to make tons of exceptions to make do what a coder wants.

walkndude
10-27-03, 07:21 PM
Thanks for clearing that up mike, Thought I was gonna have to dump the old 9800pro 128mb for a minute there ;)

Hellbinder
10-27-03, 07:38 PM
BTW Mike...

That Preview Kicked some serious A$$. Now that is what people want to see!! A bunch of different games with the settings they will likely use. Some screen shots to show examples of game quality.

The Complete Gamers package. My Hat is off to you. Best gamers review I have seen from any site bar none.

http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/tweetz/nod.gif

green_meanie
10-27-03, 07:43 PM
http://www.xgitech.com/products/products_duo.htm

Moose
10-27-03, 07:47 PM
I liked the pic of Halo on the Xbox.

Just who is Miss September there in the background anyway??? :D

MikeC
10-27-03, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
BTW Mike...

That Preview Kicked some serious A$$. Now that is what people want to see!! A bunch of different games with the settings they will likely use. Some screen shots to show examples of game quality.

The Complete Gamers package. My Hat is off to you. Best gamers review I have seen from any site bar none.

http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/tweetz/nod.gif

Thanks Hellbinder, that means alot coming from you. :) there was at least five other games I didn't get to include that I want to follow up on.


That pic was taken two years ago of Halo on X-box. I've had two other calenders since then.:D

DivotMaker
10-27-03, 08:54 PM
Great job on the preview Mike! It was refreshing to read because you presented it in a way that appeals to both the hardcore audience (us) and the mass market. You have presented a template for video card reviewing that should be held up as a model for the industry, IMHO. My only regret is I have not gotten you a copy of Tiger Woods 2004 to test the cards on. Would you be interested in a copy of that for your full-blown review?

Let me know....

-Tim

MikeC
10-27-03, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by BigBerthaEA
Great job on the preview Mike! It was refreshing to read because you presented it in a way that appeals to both the hardcore audience (us) and the mass market. You have presented a template for video card reviewing that should be held up as a model for the industry, IMHO. My only regret is I have not gotten you a copy of Tiger Woods 2004 to test the cards on. Would you be interested in a copy of that for your full-blown review?

Let me know....

-Tim

Thanks for the comments about the preview Tim and I appreciate your offer. I do have the full version of TW2004 and had planned on testing it. I wasn't able to due to time constraints, but it's on the list of games that I will test in round 2.

mikechai
10-27-03, 09:21 PM
Hi MikeC,

Overall a superb review. Looking forward to your 2nd round of review.

Would you be able to include a FX 5700/FX 5700 Ultra in your 2nd round ?

bkswaney
10-27-03, 09:29 PM
I must agree here. I just got around to reading all of it.
I very much enjoyed it and look forward to everything added
in the future. :)



______________________________________
9800Pro for sale or trade here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20102
______________________________________

MikeC
10-27-03, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by OWA
Yep, great preview Mike. I just have one question. Did you really force 4xAA in Halo? Earlier in the preview I think you mention not using AA with Halo but the gameplay chart shows 4xAA and 8xAF. I know some have been forcing AA and AF on so I'm just curious if you did that or if it was a typo. Anyway, again, great preview and thanks for taking the time to do it!

That's a typo thanks for pointing it out.

I will try to include the 5700 and the 5700ultra in round 2.

Thanks for all the feedback I appreciate it. :)

emotionstation
10-27-03, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by MikeC
Sorry for the confusion, but that was a typo. I forgot to change it from the template page I copied from.

The Radeon 9800 Pro was running at its default clock speed of 378MHz/351MHz.

Default mem speed isn't 351Mhz ;)

It's 337.5Mhz.

Sazar
10-27-03, 10:11 PM
gj on the review...

its always nice to see someone do a thorough (or thorough enough) review w/o leaving big holes to be questioned about...

ta mike...

btw... once yer done benching with tw2004... toss it this way wot :cool:

mikechai
10-27-03, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by MikeC
I will try to include the 5700 and the 5700ultra in round 2.

Thanks for all the feedback I appreciate it. :)

That will be great ! :)

|JuiceZ|
10-27-03, 10:47 PM
Excellent review buddy, the conclusion is still my favorite though, you were right on the money about where the graphics industry & the community is at moment :thumbsup:

MUYA
10-27-03, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by |JuiceZ|
Excellent review buddy, the conclusion is still my favorite though, you were right on the money about where the graphics industry & the community is at moment :thumbsup:
I second that! :D

Hellbinder
10-28-03, 12:51 AM
You know, I realized that I had not really read the conclusion after reading the last couple posts. I have to say after reading it I am a little Dissapointed and wish i had not read it.

With all of the allegations and rumors we've been exposed to during the last year in regards to the GeForce FX makes me wonder how in the hell these graphics cards even work. And when they do work, we've heard the image quality being described with adjectives like appalling, awful, inferior, poor and terrible. My response to many of the allegations is that they are hogwash. Believe me when I say that there are members in our forums who thrive on spreading unsubstantiated rumors. It's their job to do so.

Mike.. The results you just saw are with Drivers that Nvidia has taken nearly a Full year to finally pruduce. This has not been the case for the last year. The performance issues, Quality issues, Shortcuts, hackery, Cheating, slanderous conduct, and even benchmark squashing attempts are real verifiable events. They are not the product of Forum Zealots imaginations. Nor are they hogwash. Nvidias previous offerings over the last year were terrible, they were horrible and in some cases they were even appaling. There were some bright spots yes. But they were only spots.

Even with these DET drivers if you were to grab Max Payne 2 off the shelf you would find a serious performance discrepency. Is Nvidia improving? yes. Have they totally arrived yet? No. There are even still some serious lingering questions about DX9 functionality and support where new games spring up inbetween driver releases.

Thats really all i wanted to say. I dont think its right to excuse or nulify what Nvidia has pushed off on the public over the last year simply because 9 months later they finally release a decent complete Driver.

Other than that... AGain Great Job. :)

ChrisW
10-28-03, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
Mike.. The results you just saw are with Drivers that Nvidia has taken nearly a Full year to finally pruduce. This has not been the case for the last year. The performance issues, Quality issues, Shortcuts, hackery, Cheating, slanderous conduct, and even benchmark squashing attempts are real verifiable events. They are not the product of Forum Zealots imaginations. Nor are they hogwash. Nvidias previous offerings over the last year were terrible, they were horrible and in some cases they were even appaling. There were some bright spots yes. But they were only spots.
I agree. I don't see how you can say that all of this is just the cause of a few forum members whos "jobs" it is to promote slanderous accusations against nVidia! To try and state that because it seems the latest drivers seem to fix all the GFFX's problems that all the previous allegations against nVidia were obviously baseless just does not make any sense to me. I don't know how they did it, but it seems as if they might have fixed all their problems and I think that is great. It did take them a year to do it (almost the entire product cycle). I hope this will help bring prices down to a reasonable level.

Fotis
10-28-03, 03:02 AM
Nice work MikeC:thumbsup: