Kyle speaks out on ATi allegations by Tom's. [Archive]

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digitalwanderer

10-29-03, 11:15 AM

Stolen directly from the front page of Elite Bastards (http://www.elitebastards.com).

Kyle from his front page:
If you go back and look at our recent GeForceFX 5950Ultra Preview (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTM3), you will notice that we covered the two games that are actually referred to above, as for the benchmark put out by the NVIDIA "TWIWMTBP" Partner, we find little reason to evaluate that as we do not use it and you can not play it. After evaluating multiple screenshots of each game and hours of ingame evaluation we saw no difference in UT2K3 that were worth mentioning. We did find that ATI had a better overall image quality in Halo. So if ATI is cheating in Halo, NVIDIA is just doing a bad job rendering the scene. You take your pick of which you would rather have.

NVIDIA has been caught red handed this year cheating. They have admitted this to me in private meetings. Before they stand in front of us and accuse their competition, they owe you and me a public apology. This is not the first time (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAz) we have said this. Quite frankly, I have seen NVIDIA do some pretty questionable things in the past but this all takes the cake on the hypocrisy-meter.

It is pretty sad when the only way to advance your product is to tear down your competition's. NVIDIA's product is sub-standard when compared to ATI's in the DX9 gaming arena. We know, ATI knows it, and NVIDIA damn sure knows it. NVIDIA needs to concentrate their resources on making a product better than the competition's instead of spreading what we see as FUD to the press who will inevitably regurgitate it to you guys.

NVIDIA should be ashamed of themselves. I know we are ashamed of them.
Color me impressed! :eek: Nice words Kyle, and true ones.

The Baron

10-29-03, 11:18 AM

Heh. Kyle's just mad that NVIDIA isn't giving a rat's ass about him anymore.

MUYA

10-29-03, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by The Baron
Heh. Kyle's just mad that NVIDIA isn't giving a rat's ass about him anymore.

With quotes/comments like that, do you think they will even care now?

MUYA

The Baron

10-29-03, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by MUYA
With quotes/comments like that, do you think they will even care now?

MUYA
I think they stopped caring when he became so blatant and so arrogant with his pro-NVIDIA schtick that the community started to truly hate him.

Sazar

10-29-03, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by MUYA
With quotes/comments like that, do you think they will even care now?

MUYA

I concur...

kyle's shifting round like a round object with no base... just rolling from side to side...

with comments like that how can he maintain credibility?

I can understand his frustration but for his editorial's he may want to tone things down a tad...

and btw digi... the little thing stolen from EB is actually on www.hardocp.com 's homepage...

digitalwanderer

10-29-03, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by MUYA
With quotes/comments like that, do you think they will even care now?

MUYA
Actually I'm betting they might. They seem to put an awful lot of importance on [H]'s good PR for them before, mebbe they won't like the negative PR that much. ;)

MUYA

10-29-03, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
.....mebbe they won't like the negative PR that much. ;)

You think ;) hehehehe

MUYA

TheTaz

10-29-03, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Actually I'm betting they might. They seem to put an awful lot of importance on [H]'s good PR for them before, mebbe they won't like the negative PR that much. ;)

I dunno... It sounded like he was "whining" to me when he posted about Anand getting to go to that recent nVidia blurb, and [H] wasn't invited.

/shrug

Taz

Hellbinder

10-29-03, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Sazar
I concur...

kyle's shifting round like a round object with no base... just rolling from side to side...

with comments like that how can he maintain credibility?

I can understand his frustration but for his editorial's he may want to tone things down a tad...

and btw digi... the little thing stolen from EB is actually on www.hardocp.com 's homepage...
I think exactly the oposite.

I am glad he is finally fired up about this. I am glad he is taking such a hard line on it. This is not wishy washy back and forthness. Its simply doing the right thing. He has hammered ATi in the past it is high time that he addresses some of the things Nvidia is doing.

I have gotten into some pretty knock down drag out message board fights with the guy and this has always been my primary concern. Treat everyone equally. If Ati needs to get hammered hammer them. If Nvidia needs to get hammered hammer them. If more people in the press stood their ground like this then the endless flaming on message boards would die down. The bitterness and flaming comes from the fact that nvidia has been as slippery as an electric eel.

TheTaz

10-29-03, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Hellbinder
I am glad he is finally fired up about this. I am glad he is taking such a hard line on it. This is not wishy washy back and forthness. Its simply doing the right thing. He has hammered ATi in the past it is high time that he addresses some of the things Nvidia is doing.

I have gotten into some pretty knock down drag out message board fights with the guy and this has always been my primary concern. Treat everyone equally. If Ati needs to get hammered hammer them. If Nvidia needs to get hammered hammer them. If more people in the press stood their ground like this then the endless flaming on message boards would die down. The bitterness and flaming comes from the fact that nvidia has been as slippery as an electric eel.

Well... While I agree with that, the timing still makes it "look like" he's just pissed at nVidia for political reasons, more than being an "Honest Journalist". Only time will tell if this is what's really going on, or not. ;)

Taz

Nutty

10-29-03, 02:19 PM

NVIDIA needs to concentrate their resources on making a product better than the competition'

The thing about this, is what if they can't? Are they gonna just admit defeat. That doesn't look too good in the buisness world. Rule number 1 of buisness: Never admit your products are anything but perfect, and better than the rest.

I mean ffs, if nvidia said. "Our products suck, ATI totally owned us. BTW would you like a gf-fx for 350 dollars..?" Its not gonna work is it.

The "graphics community" are such a tiny sector of NV's revenue, that I honestly think they couldn't give a toss about any website. If I ran nvidia I probably wouldn't either.

They are spending resources making the product better anyway. Thats what the whole new compiler in Det 50's is about. Its just too late, and still won't be enuff to beat ATI in certain things. So what else are they gonna do. And dont say release a better card.. These things take huge amounts of time to do.

Hanners

10-29-03, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Nutty
The thing about this, is what if they can't? Are they gonna just admit defeat. That doesn't look too good in the buisness world. Rule number 1 of buisness: Never admit your products are anything but perfect, and better than the rest.

You can play to your own products strengths without trying to slander the competition though. Mind you, nVidia were even doing that when they were ahead, so I guess their being behind isn't going to change anything.

Moose

10-29-03, 02:26 PM

"NVIDIA has been caught red handed this year cheating. They have admitted this to me in private meetings."

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hellbinder

10-29-03, 02:38 PM

After some thought there is one part of this that is really bad.

If Nvidia admited to Kyle earlier this year that they were indeed cheating. Yet he said nothing. Still wrote that editorial about Futuremark, Still made many public comments about "if you cant see it then its not cheating"..

That is just plain wrong. No its actually a lot worse than wrong. Is being completely Dishonest to his readership. As I think about it i actually get a little sick. However I am now a happy non flame type person so thats as far as i go.

sxotty

10-29-03, 03:01 PM

Which HB is why I think people should be moderate and logical, not extreme and evangelical... when people get emotionally attached to hardware they say crazy things/do crazythings that later are hard to justify and detract from their credibility.

Most people are so very happy about this, but I hate 180 turns, I like smooth transitions where you logically look at what is happening and although in the past you liked X you realize that X is not longer the best, instead of holding onto some crazy idea that it is lies and deceit and then saying a bunch of BS only to suddenly go in the opposite direction, that does not show much of anything, like a politician following the polls bleh..

Skuzzy

10-29-03, 03:02 PM

Ahhh,..come on HB,..you know you want to grab a croquet mallet and smash a yard gnome. :D

bkswaney

10-29-03, 03:04 PM

Sazar

10-29-03, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Hellbinder
I think exactly the oposite.

I am glad he is finally fired up about this. I am glad he is taking such a hard line on it. This is not wishy washy back and forthness. Its simply doing the right thing. He has hammered ATi in the past it is high time that he addresses some of the things Nvidia is doing.

I have gotten into some pretty knock down drag out message board fights with the guy and this has always been my primary concern. Treat everyone equally. If Ati needs to get hammered hammer them. If Nvidia needs to get hammered hammer them. If more people in the press stood their ground like this then the endless flaming on message boards would die down. The bitterness and flaming comes from the fact that nvidia has been as slippery as an electric eel.

I know there is a method to this madness.. but I disinclined to acqueisce to his demands of respect...

kyle needs to learn the world does not revolve around him and he is answerable to the members of his board and has a responsibility in the larger scheme of things to those who visit his site and read his articles and tidbits...

IF he had been more inclined to find out more information before spouting off... I would have a slightly different stance on matters...

however... my main beef with nvidia has been that they have been jipping their customers... with the current optimisations they are doing their best to bring their products up to a level ati has maintained in dx9 games.. and I applaud that...

kyle has every right to bash nvidia for leaking information but @ the same time... ati too has leaked information...

I just fail to see how little snippets such as he is very prone to dropping are likely to be construed as in any way being constructive... but whatever floats his boat...

Hellbinder

10-29-03, 03:52 PM

kyle has every right to bash nvidia for leaking information but @ the same time... ati too has leaked information...

There is a Difference between leaking information to try and get a fair shake becuase of Dishonesty and cheating (what ATi has done).

And Making overt "suggestions" of cheating when you know damn well there is none. Even going so far as to have a coupe delevlopers (Epic, gearbox) outright LIE about ATi'd drivers, IQ etc. (Nvidia)

StealthHawk

10-29-03, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Hellbinder
After some thought there is one part of this that is really bad.

If Nvidia admited to Kyle earlier this year that they were indeed cheating. Yet he said nothing. Still wrote that editorial about Futuremark, Still made many public comments about "if you cant see it then its not cheating"..

That is just plain wrong. No its actually a lot worse than wrong. Is being completely Dishonest to his readership. As I think about it i actually get a little sick. However I am now a happy non flame type person so thats as far as i go.

Well, duh. Kyle has always insisted that he was on top of the various issues that were discovered this past year. Yet he remained silent. He was NVIDIA's golden spokesboy. Until NVIDIA lied to him. Then he got mad. Only then did he finally speak up :rolleyes:

Sounds like a spoiled kid. Well, at least he isn't spouting off the PR BS anymore. "The issue was fixed before it ever mattered." ROFL. I must laugh at the silliness of it.

Hellbinder

10-29-03, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by StealthHawk
Well, duh. Kyle has always insisted that he was on top of the various issues that were discovered this past year. Yet he remained silent. He was NVIDIA's golden spokesboy. Until NVIDIA lied to him. Then he got mad. Only then did he finally speak up :rolleyes:

Sounds like a spoiled kid. Well, at least he isn't spouting off the PR BS anymore. "The issue was fixed before it ever mattered." ROFL. I must laugh at the silliness of it.
Dont hold back now SH.. Tell us how you Really Feel. :D

Dean_RW

10-29-03, 07:00 PM

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAz

after discussing some issues with Nvidia he came out with the editorial I linked above.

Hellbinder

10-29-03, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Dean_RW
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAz

after discussing some issues with Nvidia he came out with the editorial I linked above.
You are Right that was a very good editorial by Kyle.

The Baron

10-29-03, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Hellbinder
You are Right that was a very good editorial by Kyle.
I thought it was more indicative of "WAH! NVIDIA DOESN'T GIVE ME SPECIAL TREATMENT ANYMORE! SO THEY'RE FANCYPANTS BASTARDS FOR THE CRAP WHOSE EXISTENCE I DENIED! WAAH!"

digitalwanderer

10-29-03, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by The Baron
I thought it was more indicative of "WAH! NVIDIA DOESN'T GIVE ME SPECIAL TREATMENT ANYMORE! SO THEY'RE FANCYPANTS BASTARDS FOR THE CRAP WHOSE EXISTENCE I DENIED! WAAH!"
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

If nothing else this has been the funnest story I've been following all day. :D