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particleman
11-03-03, 08:15 AM
Reading the new features in Rivatuner 14.1:

-Forward compatibility with undocumented ForceWare FSAA modes. The newly announced NVIDIA drivers contain dozen of undocumented supersampling / multisampling / hybrid antialiasing modes, which have not been fully identified yet. Since this version the list of antialiasing modes available in RivaTuner's Direct3D / OpenGL tweaking panels is user programmable and can be easily updated via editing RivaTuner.cfg file. This ensures easy antialiasing modes list update without need to download updated RivaTuner's executable file after identifying all undocumented modes. Power users may start experimenting with undocumented FSAA modes right now :)

So has anyone identified any yet? I am hoping someone finds that 2x2 (4X) supersampling is still in 52.16.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by particleman
Reading the new features in Rivatuner 14.1:

-Forward compatibility with undocumented ForceWare FSAA modes. The newly announced NVIDIA drivers contain dozen of undocumented supersampling / multisampling / hybrid antialiasing modes, which have not been fully identified yet. Since this version the list of antialiasing modes available in RivaTuner's Direct3D / OpenGL tweaking panels is user programmable and can be easily updated via editing RivaTuner.cfg file. This ensures easy antialiasing modes list update without need to download updated RivaTuner's executable file after identifying all undocumented modes. Power users may start experimenting with undocumented FSAA modes right now :)

So has anyone identified any yet? I am hoping someone finds that 2x2 (4X) supersampling is still in 52.16.

Me too, Does anyone have any information? You can go deep into the registry and enable Mode 7, mode 8 mode 9 ect and see what you get if you want to particle.

particleman
11-03-03, 12:41 PM
I would but I'm not at home right now. I did try messing around with the keys when the 52.16s were first released, but it wasn't easy, since nVidia's registry keys are encrypted. I eventually figured out one of the keys that controlled AA, and definitely noticed different modes of antialiasing, but wasn't exactly sure what they were, but the ones I found definitely weren't supersampling. I am going to give it another shot when I get home. I had a look at the rivatuner config file, and there seems to be several required values for different AA modes, I didn't have much time to examine the new rivatuner or the config file before I left this morning. I am hoping that somewhere in there Unwinder put the values of the keys for the undocumented AA modes, so I don't have to randomly test numbers and keys.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 12:44 PM
Alrdy figured it out for you. Check out here, I went into it and found 4x Super Sampling,

A Mystery Super sampling Mode which appears to be 2x or 1x, But I believe to be 2x.

And old 6x, Old 8x ect,

Cant seem to find 4x Quincunx or 16x tho.


I Think you'll be most happy to know I found super sampling for you, Since I know you like it as much as I do.


P.S I did it the hard way randomly checking numbers and keys lol ;)

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15821&pagenumber=2

particleman
11-03-03, 12:55 PM
Thanks Chris. The rivatuner config file having an easy way to test the AA modes was what I was hoping for, I probably didn't notice that because I only had a few minutes to look at it this morning. Now that there is a way to use 4X AA with the 52.16 drivers I think I will finally switch over to them from the 45.33's for good.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by particleman
Thanks Chris. The rivatuner config file having an easy way to test the AA modes was what I was hoping for, I probably didn't notice that because I only had a few minutes to look at it this morning. Now that there is a way to use 4X AA with the 52.16 drivers I think I will finally switch over to them from the 45.33's for good.


Well the 51.16 Dets are pretty good. IMO, Now that I've figured out how to reenable Super Sampling. I feel more complete tho :)

green_meanie
11-03-03, 02:17 PM
Just use Atuner to enable hidden AA modes;

http://www.3dcenter.org/atuner/index_e.php

The Baron
11-03-03, 02:40 PM
Just wait till Stealth gets a hold of this sucka.

God help us all.

StealthHawk
11-03-03, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by green_meanie
Just use Atuner to enable hidden AA modes;

http://www.3dcenter.org/atuner/index_e.php

aTuner doesn't work properly with the 50 series driver. It doesn't expose the new "hidden" modes that the newest RivaTuner apparently does.

StealthHawk
11-03-03, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Alrdy figured it out for you. Check out here, I went into it and found 4x Super Sampling,

A Mystery Super sampling Mode which appears to be 2x or 1x, But I believe to be 2x.

And old 6x, Old 8x ect,

Cant seem to find 4x Quincunx or 16x tho.


I Think you'll be most happy to know I found super sampling for you, Since I know you like it as much as I do.


P.S I did it the hard way randomly checking numbers and keys lol ;)

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15821&pagenumber=2

So you found everything already? I will take a look anyway (later, hopefully today) :D

Psst..."16x" is really 12x. And you can get that with old versions of aTuner or RivaTuner, or from the control panel. 12x is now 6x in the control panel :afro2:

Discussion (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20352)

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
So you found everything already? I will take a look anyway (later, hopefully today) :D

Psst..."16x" is really 12x. And you can get that with old versions of aTuner or RivaTuner, or from the control panel. 12x is now 6x in the control panel :afro2:

Discussion (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20352)

If 16x is 12x, Then ya, I found everything except 4x Quincunx, In your Anti Aliasing Discussion, I posted the information on how to re enable them through Riva Tuner. The most interesting thing I found was the 2x Super Sampling Mode, Which strangely offers very Similar performance to 4xS,

But it's definately not 4xS, Very wierd pattern.

green_meanie
11-03-03, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
aTuner doesn't work properly with the 50 series driver. It doesn't expose the new "hidden" modes that the newest RivaTuner apparently does.

So you found everything already? I will take a look anyway (later, hopefully today)

Psst..."16x" is really 12x. And you can get that with old versions of aTuner or RivaTuner, or from the control panel. 12x is now 6x in the control panel

What about FSAA? Has it improved? Yes and no. To answer this question, take a look at my FSAA post. I looked at all modes offered by the control panel: 2x, 2xQ, 4x, 6x, and 8x. You may notice that 4xS has vanished from the control panel. Don't worry, you can still get it by using RivaTuner or aTuner. It becomes immediately apparent that 6x and 8x are much better than before. Upon closer inspection, you will realize that 8x is really the formerly hidden 8xS mode, and 6x is really the formerly hidden 12x mode.



You just said above it works. I downloaded the newest version, worked fine with 52.16. I got 4xS, old 6x, and 8xS added in D3D and 8xS and 16x added in OpenGL. What modes are you talking about...D3D 12x? You say 6x is really the formally hidden 12x mode.

StealthHawk
11-03-03, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by green_meanie
You just said above it works. I downloaded the newest version, worked fine with 52.16. I got 4xS, old 6x, and 8xS added in D3D and 8xS and 16x added in OpenGL. What modes are you talking about...D3D 12x? You say 6x is really the formally hidden 12x mode.

No, the old 6x and old 8x are gone from aTuner. As is 4x9tap. If you select 6x in aTuner you will get 12x(just like in the NVIDIA control panel). If you select 8x you will get 8xS(just like in the NVIDIA control panel).

green_meanie
11-03-03, 08:58 PM
I got ya thanks.

StealthHawk
11-03-03, 09:10 PM
So, I did some digging and found all the old and new modes(I think).

FSAAMode12 = 4x 9tap
FSAAMode05 = 4x Super Sampling
FSAAMode16 = old 6x
FSAAMode18 = old 8x

The above are the old modes that disappeared from tweaking programs with the 50 series driver. You can find out more about them here (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15821).

FSAAMode01 = mystery horizonal SS?
FSAAMode02 = mystery vertical SS?
FSAAMode0C = mystery SS mode?
FSAAMode14 = mystery texture filter
FSAAMode0A = StarStorm Quality ;)

"FSAAMode01" appears to be horizontal SuperSampling. Interestingly enough, AA is done only on vertical edges.

"FSAAMode02" appears to be vertical SuperSampling. It does AA on horizontal edges.

"FSAAMode0C" appears to be a mixture of SS and a texture filter.

"FSAAMode14" does no FSAA at all. It is a texture filter. This is what ChrisRay thought was 2x SSAA.

"FSAAMode0A" is another texture filter that does no FSAA at all. It seems to mess with LOD such that the scene becomes so sharp it looks grainy. Texture aliasing is everywhere and pixels pop out. This is what I envision StarStorm's drivers to do based on comments I've seen.


Attached is a zip file of RivaTuner.cfg. Simply replace the existing file in your RivaTuner directoy and all new (and old) FSAA modes will be exposed.

green_meanie
11-03-03, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the zip... much appreciated.

particleman
11-03-03, 10:55 PM
Nice job Stealthhawk, so if FSAAMode05 is 2x2 supersampling, what is the mode that ChrisRay pointed out (FSAAMode07)? That mode looks like a both modes look like supersampling, I noticed that the performance on mode07 is @ 9% slower than FSAA mode05.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 11:07 PM
FSAAMode14" does no FSAA at all. It is a texture filter. This is what ChrisRay thought was 2x SSAA

I think you should look again, There is Anti Aliasing occuring, what program are you using to test this? In 3dmark2001 Car test, I see dramatic Aliasing improvement with FSAAMode14

particleman
11-03-03, 11:17 PM
Comparing mode05 to mode07, both are definitely supersampling modes as they both do alpha textures and they both don't show your typical multisampling glitches (odd lines in old games). What I noticed though is that mode07 seems to blur text and textures a bit. Is it 4X supersampling with a blur filter, a higher level of supersampling, or supersampling with a different sample pattern?

Also I tested FSAAMode14 with UT2003 and I agree with Chris that it is definitely doing AA.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by particleman
Comparing mode05 to mode07, both are definitely supersampling modes as they both do alpha textures and they both don't show your typical multisampling glitches (odd lines in old games). What I noticed though is that mode07 seems to blur text and textures a bit. Is it 4X supersampling with a blur filter, a higher level of supersampling, or supersampling with a different sample pattern?

Also I tested FSAAMode14 with UT2003 and I agree with Chris that it is definitely doing AA.


The Vertical and Horizontal Modes are 2 Sample Anti Aliasing Modes, That much I can be sure about.

Mode07 is the one I found correct? I will test em and see the differences too.

Particle. You have an OpenGL game handy to see if these modes effect OpenGL?

Installing wc3 as I can use it opengl now to test. I know for sure it works in D3d,.


Comparing mode05 to mode07, both are definitely supersampling modes as they both do alpha textures and they both don't show your typical multisampling glitches (odd lines in old games). What I noticed though is that mode07 seems to blur text and textures a bit. Is it 4X supersampling with a blur filter, a higher level of supersampling, or supersampling with a different sample pattern?

Both appear to have the same Sampling Pattern, Btw IIRC there was also a Mode08 Which had the same sample Pattern at Mode07 and Mode05, But I didnt mention because I assumed it was the same thing. So perhaps you could try and test that as well?

Mode07 and Mode05 have the same sample pattern but you're right, There appears to be some kind of post processing going on maybe?

particleman
11-03-03, 11:51 PM
Yeah I tried these modes on some OpenGL games, unfortunately they don't appear to do anything in OpenGL.

ChrisRay
11-03-03, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by particleman
Yeah I tried these modes on some OpenGL games, unfortunately they don't appear to do anything in OpenGL.


Ya I can confirm that. Aside from 4x Quincunx, But thats always Worked in OpenGL, I guess that should be noted.


It's kinda a bummer, All these great Super Sampling Options (And Finally 2x Super Sampling! (referring to vertical/Horizontal/ Since Mode14 is debatable)

Yet none of it works in OpenGL, Then Again, Back when I was using my Geforce 4 I never expected to see 6x or 8x make it to OpenGL and sure enough, There they are... Which is good :)

Tho I doubt we'll ever see Nvidia "officially" support non Hybrid SS modes.

bloodbob
11-04-03, 03:13 AM
FSAAMode0A = StarStorm Quality

What FSAAMode0A removes Mip map completely or just remove AA???

StealthHawk
11-04-03, 04:35 AM
A word of warning: if you add things to the .cfg file it can change what mode is what...

for example, I tried adding mode7 to see if it was the same as mode5, and it changed mode5 to something else besides 4xSS, it changed it to one of the other modes.

ChrisRay
11-04-03, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
A word of warning: if you add things to the .cfg file it can change what mode is what...

for example, I tried adding mode7 to see if it was the same as mode5, and it changed mode5 to something else besides 4xSS, it changed it to one of the other modes.


This has not happened to me...