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View Full Version : Imroved analog image quality: Det 5x vs 4x (SW), or NV3x vs NV2x (HW)?


ricercar
11-06-03, 11:45 PM
I just finished a weekend of hardcore gaming with an engineering sample FX 5900 Ultra on 52.16. Today I swapped in my Quadro4 980XGL engineering sample, and re-installed the 52.16.

Whoa.

The 2D image quality on the 5900 VGA (analog) port was near-perfect, hardly discernable from the DVI (digital) port. Yet the analog IQ on the 980XGL is slightly blurry, making it too annoying to tolerate! Such horrible analogue IQ hasn't dared appear on my own system since i stopped using a KVM with 4-meter cables.

Why is this happening?
- Was there dramatic IQ improvments for NV35 over NV28?
- Does my NV35 have an above-average DAC?
- Does my NV28 have a below-average DAC?
- Does 52.16 reduce IQ in GeForce4 in some way that wasn't done in 4x.xx?

This is just wrong. :banghead: Now I'm going to have to test my two NV30s, and Detonators 4x.xx, spending the weekend comparing NV3x to NV2x, Dets 4x to 5x on clean systems. I was planning to sleep this weekend.

ChrisRay
11-06-03, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by ricercar
I just finished a weekend of hardcore gaming with an engineering sample FX 5900 Ultra on 52.16. Today I swapped in my Quadro4 980XGL engineering sample, and re-installed the 52.16.

Whoa.

The 2D image quality on the 5900 VGA (analog) port was near-perfect, hardly discernable from the DVI (digital) port. Yet the analog IQ on the 980XGL is slightly blurry, making it too annoying to tolerate! Such horrible analogue IQ hasn't dared appear on my own system since i stopped using a KVM with 4-meter cables.

Why is this happening?
- Was there dramatic IQ improvments for NV35 over NV28?
- Does my NV35 have an above-average DAC?
- Does my NV28 have a below-average DAC?
- Does 52.16 reduce IQ in GeForce4 in some way that wasn't done in 4x.xx?

This is just wrong. :banghead: Now I'm going to have to test my two NV30s, and Detonators 4x.xx, spending the weekend comparing NV3x to NV2x, Dets 4x to 5x on clean systems. I was planning to sleep this weekend.

Ramdac RFI filters can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.. Some Nvidia cards have great 2d Quality, SOme have HORRIBLE due to terrible RFI Filters, It's not so much as DAC quality but the filter on the ramdac itself.

ricercar
11-07-03, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
It's not so much as DAC quality but the filter on the ramdac itself.

Aaaaah! Much sense you make, wise one.

My Quadro4 NV28GL has obvious wiring experiments—like test points—where some of the electrolytic caps should be. I'll get out my GeForce4 NV28, and install appropriate caps in the empty places. (Hmm. These seem like power filter caps. You aren't talking about RFI filters made of those wee little surface-mount buggers, are you? Hope not...)

Dazz
11-07-03, 07:13 AM
Yeap, nVIDIA tend to use high quaility filters while they they leave them up to the manufatures to pick what filters they want to use, hence more expensive cards are more likely to have better filters then the cheaper models. ATi I beleve use all the same as it's a standard. nVIDIA may very well decided to force manufatures to use the same high quaility filters also.

saturnotaku
11-07-03, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
nVIDIA may very well decided to force manufatures to use the same high quaility filters also.

I'm pretty sure that at some point NVIDIA flat-out said they were going to start implementing some very tight controls on which filters card manufacturers could use. I thought it was supposed to start happening with the NV30 and higher. But as has been stated, some companies (ie Gainward, Leadtek) already use high quality filters, which is why their 2D always tended to be better. Even since the NV25, I think 2D on NVIDIA cards has been a non-issue but that's purely based on personal experience.

The Baron
11-07-03, 09:08 AM
I couldn't tell a difference between my Radeon 9600 Pro and a Ti4600 engineering sample. I'll let you know tomorrow about a 5700 Ultra. I think Chris is right--it's the filters, not the card.

GXAlan
11-07-03, 09:12 AM
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/2d_picture_quality_quicklook/default.asp

I just took a look at image quality -- it's just a preview.

ChrisRay
11-07-03, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
I'm pretty sure that at some point NVIDIA flat-out said they were going to start implementing some very tight controls on which filters card manufacturers could use. I thought it was supposed to start happening with the NV30 and higher. But as has been stated, some companies (ie Gainward, Leadtek) already use high quality filters, which is why their 2D always tended to be better. Even since the NV25, I think 2D on NVIDIA cards has been a non-issue but that's purely based on personal experience.


Ya my Leadtek's FX 5900 Quality is just as good as my ATI Radeon 9500 Pro. Good to See Nvidia has worked on this.

green_meanie
11-07-03, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
I'm pretty sure that at some point NVIDIA flat-out said they were going to start implementing some very tight controls on which filters card manufacturers could use. I thought it was supposed to start happening with the NV30 and higher. But as has been stated, some companies (ie Gainward, Leadtek) already use high quality filters, which is why their 2D always tended to be better. Even since the NV25, I think 2D on NVIDIA cards has been a non-issue but that's purely based on personal experience.

Personally I never had an issue with Nvidia's 2D quality...never looked blurry to me at whatever resolution I ran it at. I've had a Riva 128, GF256 through a FX. Maybe I always bought good cards(usually Asus) and monitors.

The GF4(NV25) did have a crisper 2D and defintely cripser 3D IQ than the generations before it IMO.

The FX5900 (NV35), we'll skip the NV30 :rolleyes: , to me has cripser 2D and 3D than the NV25. Also think that there's better color saturation in 3D mode. Colors seem cripser and warmer on the 5900.

I agree that Nvidia should just force them to use a high quality filters on the boards. If the board maf. wants to put higher quality filters fine, but raise the bar on all the boards for the standard.