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howard stern
11-14-03, 09:46 AM
Well this is going to be a gripe so if you don't like these kinds of posts back away now.


I was just reading the nv news headlins and saw that dreamcatcher is designing there games just for the FX GPU!
I think it sucks that this company is going to write there code to make the FX card perform better (CHEATS) and leave ATI out in the cold. They should just follow the Direct X standard so all video cards will perform good and not favor one over the other. It is nobodies fault but nvidia's that there direct X 9 GPU's don't perform very well in DX9. I will boycot this game no matter how good it is and I would hope others are as mad as I am. I AM NOT ASKING OTHER TO BOYCOT THIS GAME AND THIS THREAD IS NOT DESIGNED TO DISPUTE THE DX9 STANDARD.

BTW I have almost always used nvidia cards except for my very last purchase. I read nvnews everyday and my feeling are in no way towards nvnews since they just post the news.

Reaper106
11-14-03, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by howard stern
Well this is going to be a grip so if you don't like these kinds of posts back away now.


I was just reading the nv news headlins and saw that dreamcatcher is designing there games just for the FX GPU!
I think it sucks that this company is going to write there code to make the FX card perform better (CHEATS) and leave ATI out in the cold. They should just follow the Direct X standard so all video cards will perform good and not favor one over the other. It is nobodies fault but nvidia's that there direct X 9 GPU's don't perform very well in DX9. I will boycot this game no matter how good it is and I would hope others are as mad as I am. I AM NOT ASKING OTHER TO BOYCOT THIS GAME AND THIS THREAD IS NOT DESIGNED TO DISPUTE THE DX9 STANDARD.

BTW I have almost always used nvidia cards except for my very last purchase. I read nvnews everyday and my feeling are in no way towards nvnews since they just post the news.

"Partnering with NVIDIA further proves how seriously people are taking Painkiller. NVIDIA's reputation is second to none, and we're convinced that Painkiller will look and play even better using their hardware", commented DreamCatcher's President and CEO, Richard Wah Kan"

FX is the GPU of choice for this game, ATI is the GPU of choice for HL2. They will both run on the "Other" GPU. Dont think you have much to worry about bro.:firedevil

The Baron
11-14-03, 10:08 AM
Adding _pp flags and other stuff to make NV3x cards perform better isn't writing a game in Glide. Neither is ignoring the limitations of NV3x cards and assuming that the card will simply use FP24 at all times.

Dazz
11-14-03, 10:09 AM
Yeah well it's the way the market works.

howard stern
11-14-03, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Reaper106
"Partnering with NVIDIA further proves how seriously people are taking Painkiller. NVIDIA's reputation is second to none, and we're convinced that Painkiller will look and play even better using their hardware", commented DreamCatcher's President and CEO, Richard Wah Kan"

FX is the GPU of choice for this game, ATI is the GPU of choice for HL2. They will both run on the "Other" GPU. Dont think you have much to worry about bro.:firedevil

After I posted this I knew someone would bring up halflife 2 but the difference is Halflife 2 is not coded for ATI but it is coded for the DX9 STANDARD and that is why it plays better.

sxotty
11-14-03, 10:24 AM
The better the game the more it will specifiy the hardware it works with. That way if there is any feature that either company offers it can be taken advantage of, look at ATI's truform feature not enough devs used it because "the other company" did not do it, they should have used it.

A game should be designed to the strengths of whatever cards are available, only small companies and crappy games are designed to ony work at one level.

BTW it is usually called a gripe not a grip.

howard stern
11-14-03, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by sxotty
The better the game the more it will specifiy the hardware it works with. That way if there is any feature that either company offers it can be taken advantage of, look at ATI's truform feature not enough devs used it because "the other company" did not do it, they should have used it.

A game should be designed to the strengths of whatever cards are available, only small companies and crappy games are designed to ony work at one level.

BTW it is usually called a gripe not a grip.

Thx for pointing out my typo, i fixed it. But your point about the strenths of whatever cards are available don't hold water because they are not doing it, they are writing code the the FX GPU not the ATI VPU therefore you are incorrect.

Reaper106
11-14-03, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by howard stern
After I posted this I knew someone would bring up halflife 2 but the difference is Halflife 2 is not coded for ATI but it is coded for the DX9 STANDARD and that is why it plays better.



My point was that if you own a ATI card the game will play and look great i'm sure. :firedevil

Reaper106
11-14-03, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by howard stern
Thx for pointing out my typo, i fixed it. But your point about the strenths of whatever cards are available don't hold water because they are not doing it, they are writing code the the FX GPU not the ATI VPU therefore you are incorrect.

You missed his point:firedevil

Hanners
11-14-03, 11:08 AM
Don't be sucked in by the marketing, this isn't going to be some kind of GeForceFX only game.

sebazve
11-14-03, 11:12 AM
hellbinder on dreamcather forums:

This is a TRAVESTY!!!!

You cant have the "best Visual experience" on hardware that is reducing Quality and replacing HQ game shaders and code to keep performance up. This is like a Sick Joke. Anyone with any common sense and understanding KNOWS that the Highest Game Quality *currently* is only achieved on an ATi R3xx series card. Especially if you are going to use any DX9 at all. Pease explain to me how the game will "look so much better" only using FX12 or FP16.. Using none of the latest techniques like Multiple Render Targets, or Floating point Cube maps, or Floating point Volumetric textures.. Just a FEW of the features Nvidias hardware currently does not support.

Stuff like this Angers me to no end.. Why? Because you guys are going to have to write "Special" code specifically and ONLY for Nvidia Nv30 line to get the results you want (meaning decent FPS). Which will likely hurt ATi owners and anyone else. You Devs know it. You know for a DAMN FACT that if you coded you game to STANDARDS it would have the best chance of running well on everyone hardware. Well maybe not Nvidias hardware. Becuase Nvidias Hardware is a MESS that requires one HELL of a lot more work to get even close to the same results as an ATi card.

lol:angel:

Hanners
11-14-03, 11:14 AM
Hellbinder annoyed? Say it ain't so! :eek: ;)

DMA
11-14-03, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by howard stern
They should just follow the Direct X standard so all video cards will perform good

All huh? ;)

O Canada! Our home and Native land!

Seriously though. The NVIDIA hate campaign is beginning to turn into some weird mass hysteria. Every little thing written about NV, doesn't matter what it is, makes the crowd go crazy.

Relax folks and you'll probably live longer.

:hug:

Reaper106
11-14-03, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Hanners
Hellbinder annoyed? Say it ain't so! :eek: ;)

Heh, He must have lost his pipe.:smoking:

ChrisRay
11-14-03, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by sebazve
hellbinder on dreamcather forums:



lol:angel:


Bah I want links!

Malfunction
11-14-03, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Bah I want links!

http://dreamcatcherinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13429

hehe... good stuff. :D

Peace,

:afro2:

bkswaney
11-14-03, 12:13 PM
I thought HB was not going to get upset anymore.
I guess he lost his pipe. ;)

I think they made a good choice. NV does hold a LOT
of the market.
People other than tech heads even know who nvidia is. :)

ChrisRay
11-14-03, 12:15 PM
Heh Obviously I'm not upset about this. But I wouldnt be concerned if I were an ATI user either.

bkswaney
11-14-03, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Heh Obviously I'm not upset about this. But I wouldnt be concerned if I were an ATI user either.

I know.. I bet it runs better on ati's HW. :)
But for marketing they jumped on NV.

DMA
11-14-03, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Malfunction


hehe... good stuff. :D


Scary stuff!
Give that man a new pipe.

:afro:

Reaper106
11-14-03, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Heh Obviously I'm not upset about this. But I wouldnt be concerned if I were an ATI user either.

I agree:beer:

sxotty
11-14-03, 12:36 PM
Yeah I have an ATI card obviously and I ain't concerned either people just like to get upset.

Reaper106
11-14-03, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by sxotty
Yeah I have an ATI card obviously and I ain't concerned either people just like to get upset.

Yeah I'm happy to hear it will run and look good on my FX, And I know it will do the same on the ATI card's.:firedevil

Sledge
11-14-03, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by sebazve
hellbinder on dreamcather forums:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a TRAVESTY!!!!

You cant have the "best Visual experience" on hardware that is reducing Quality and replacing HQ game shaders and code to keep performance up. This is like a Sick Joke. Anyone with any common sense and understanding KNOWS that the Highest Game Quality *currently* is only achieved on an ATi R3xx series card. Especially if you are going to use any DX9 at all. Pease explain to me how the game will "look so much better" only using FX12 or FP16.. Using none of the latest techniques like Multiple Render Targets, or Floating point Cube maps, or Floating point Volumetric textures.. Just a FEW of the features Nvidias hardware currently does not support.

Stuff like this Angers me to no end.. Why? Because you guys are going to have to write "Special" code specifically and ONLY for Nvidia Nv30 line to get the results you want (meaning decent FPS). Which will likely hurt ATi owners and anyone else. You Devs know it. You know for a DAMN FACT that if you coded you game to STANDARDS it would have the best chance of running well on everyone hardware. Well maybe not Nvidias hardware. Becuase Nvidias Hardware is a MESS that requires one HELL of a lot more work to get even close to the same results as an ATi card.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



lol:angel:


Hellbinder must be independently wealthy. If your biggest issue in life is that some video card isn't displaying what you think it should, you've got an easy life. I picture him making these posts from his Alienware laptop while wearing his smoking jacket, sitting next to his olympic-size pool in his backyard with the current month's Playboy centerfold in the lounge chair next to him.

:angel:

Hellbinder
11-14-03, 01:28 PM
There is a Big difference bettween Supporting Trueform or some other feature as an ADDITION to the game and coding a game to only correctly support one hardware when ALL can do it.

In This case this is Just like STALKER where Nvidia is Directly involved in the games development. Where just like in STALKER they are claiming the DX9 code runs "Faster" on Nvidia hardware. Well Duh. Because its specifically written DOWN to NVidias hardware in such a way that it is a detrament to everyone else. In this Case Painkiller is Being hand Tuned to Nvidia Hardware instead of coding to STANDARDS that will benefit everyone.

I dont expect many of you Nvidia owners to care. Just imagine how you would feel if Valve had not spent 5x longer trying to get Nvidia hardware up and running on their game?

If Nvidia had some Special Feature that no one else has i can understand that being used as an Additional Feature. More power To them thats Wonderful. I would expect the same thing for ATI or anyone else. However it is flat out wrong to Pull a Tron "Glow Effect", or NWN "shinny water" or " TW 2003 "Water Reflection" deal where all hardware is capable of it but they Disable it via Hardware ID detection or other methods.

It especially bothers me when Weaker Hardware is featured as the "Best" for the Job and Coded specifically for to make that seem True. When all that is really happening is the Real Deal is Getting Screwed over via Clever Program Tricks.