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SH64
11-21-03, 06:04 AM
I'm getting the game soon hopefully and i'm wondring what gfx card to play it with 9800XT or 5900 ultra ??
i want to play it with all eye candy and max detail of course.

the demo runs smooth on the 5900 . on the other hand i heard about a lot of bugs & crashes on the ATI cards .

so wadya think a 5900ultra+P4:2.4 or 9800XT+P4:3GHz ?

demonized
11-21-03, 06:19 AM
From what ive been reading it performs better on nvidias card.
So ur saying you got two computers? then why not just test it
when u get the game.

SH64
11-21-03, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by demonized
From what ive been reading it performs better on nvidias card.
So ur saying you got two computers? then why not just test it
when u get the game.

I can do it but i dont want to spend some serious play time then i find that it crash somewhere or has a bug in middle of the game.

Sotos
11-21-03, 07:00 AM
Unfortunately these game among with others like Call of Duty or Empires dawn of modern world are playing better wih Nvidia hardware

The EYE CANDY (I.Q) is better with ATI but they run much more stable with Nvidia hardware :(

I am starting thinking of changing my 9800pro to a new Geforce fx card soon :(

I love ATi general I.Q but not in the expense of games stability or texture corruption :(

I hope ATI does something with their drivers to improve latest games stability or else i will go back to Nvidia

SH64
11-21-03, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Sotos
Unfortunately these game among with others like Call of Duty or Empires dawn of modern world are playing better wih Nvidia hardware

The EYE CANDY (I.Q) is better with ATI but they run much more stable with Nvidia hardware :(

I am starting thinking of changing my 9800pro to a new Geforce fx card soon :(

I love ATi general I.Q but not in the expense of games stability or texture corruption :(

I hope ATI does something with their drivers to improve latest games stability or else i will go back to Nvidia

i agree with most of what you said . i have 2 systems one running with Nvidia .. the other with ATI .
to tell the truth the ATI card gives a better IQ & performance , but unstable drivers .
while on the Nvidia card you just get a more stable drivers but for less IQ (Sometimes) and performance .

i remember when i bought the 9800pro . i installed Morrowind which was included in the box & it crashed using the same drivers came with the card :D

thenerdguy
11-21-03, 07:22 AM
My best friend got a 9700 when it 1st came out. We had a small lan party and played UT2003 and it crashed 6 to 9 times in one hour. :) He got the newer cats and it only crashed about 3 times in one hour. So far I still havnt had any trouble out of my FX :)

SH64
11-21-03, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by thenerdguy
My best friend got a 9700 when it 1st came out. We had a small lan party and played UT2003 and it crashed 6 to 9 times in one hour. :) He got the newer cats and it only crashed about 3 times in one hour. So far I still havnt had any trouble out of my FX :)

the Crash per Hour percentage has reduced with the newer Cats ! cool hehe :D

jAkUp
11-21-03, 09:58 AM
i never have any crashing problems with any games... i play for hours, and i experience 0 crashes.. stability is exactly the same as my 5900.

it seems that ati still has a few problems with paticular combination of hardware, but it is much better than it used to be.

only problem is with nfs u, if you turn on aa, the game slows to a crawl, turn it off, and it runs great... very strange.

stncttr908
11-21-03, 11:10 AM
Never a problem on my 9800 Pro.

cavalier
11-21-03, 12:19 PM
Actually what y'all have been hearing about ATI is wrong (except for the bterr IQ part).

I have a Radeon 9700 Pro and have not had a single problem with a game since I've had it.

That being said, there was a bug with the Catalyst 3.9 drivers (which I never used) and Call of Duty.

HOWEVER, ATI has just released what they're calling a "hotfix" for the 3.9 Cat. drivers which, and this has been confirmed by CATALYST MAKER on the ATI driver team, is actually a full driver set (22 megs) that is the new Catalyst 3.10 drivers but without the Microsoft WHQL certification.

I have downloaded this driver and it is just AMAZING. Call of Duty bug has been fixed (no more crashing or 16-bit colors) and the Ansio Filtering has been cranked up in quality, making everything in games stand out that much more.

This new BETA of the Cats. 3.10 (remember, its called a "hotfix" by ATI on its Web site) is getting rave reviews from those who have used it (me too, obviously) and is a no-brainer to download for all those with an ATI card. Just make sure you delete your old drivers first before installing, as these are a full driver set and should be installed as such.

As for NFS: Underground the game runs surprisingly flawlessly on my somewhat feeble rig (AMD Athlon 1800, 512 RAM, Radeon 9700 Pro) at 1280 x 1024 with 6x AA and 8x Ansio settings, max detail on all parts of the game, and just looks swesome. Since going from an Nvidia card to ATI, I really have noticed a difference in terms of IQ so I'd give ATI the definite nod there.

There is a bug in NFS: Underground in BOTH ATI and NVidia cards in that the Anti-aliasing doesn't work unless you disable light trails and the blur effect. Hopefully a patch will address this, but with EA and the lack of one for NFS: Hot Pursuit 2, I'm doubtful.

This game is really a blast, but go to www.cheathappens.com for the cheats to unlock all tracks, cars, etc. if you don't want to endure career mode to unlock this stuff and just want to jump right into whatever course/car you want to.

And again, if you have an ATI card go grab that BETA 3.10 Cats. (they'll be certified and officially released, without the BETA tag, in December) NOW!

-=DVS=-
11-21-03, 01:13 PM
heh people who getting Radeon to crash so offten doing something terribly wrong or have a bad card or motherboard or something..., i got 9700Pro never had a crash :D

OWA
11-21-03, 02:00 PM
I had problems with the demo on my ATI card (AIW 9800 Pro) when light trails and motion blur was on or any rez higher than 1024x768. I guess it ran better on my 5900U but it also had an annoying pause every few seconds. Anyway, with the actual game I'm running at 1280x1024x32 with motion blur, light trails on and all options maxed and it's running pretty well (pretty smooth) on the ATI card. I haven't tried it in the nvidia system just yet but I plan to try it in a system with a Ti4600 and 5900U here shortly.

Edit: I guess I should add that is with no AA or AF forced on or anything. Just using the in game settings for setting up the graphics.

Sotos
11-21-03, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by cavalier
Actually what y'all have been hearing about ATI is wrong (except for the bterr IQ part).

I have a Radeon 9700 Pro and have not had a single problem with a game since I've had it.

That being said, there was a bug with the Catalyst 3.9 drivers (which I never used) and Call of Duty.

HOWEVER, ATI has just released what they're calling a "hotfix" for the 3.9 Cat. drivers which, and this has been confirmed by CATALYST MAKER on the ATI driver team, is actually a full driver set (22 megs) that is the new Catalyst 3.10 drivers but without the Microsoft WHQL certification.

I have downloaded this driver and it is just AMAZING. Call of Duty bug has been fixed (no more crashing or 16-bit colors) and the Ansio Filtering has been cranked up in quality, making everything in games stand out that much more.

This new BETA of the Cats. 3.10 (remember, its called a "hotfix" by ATI on its Web site) is getting rave reviews from those who have used it (me too, obviously) and is a no-brainer to download for all those with an ATI card. Just make sure you delete your old drivers first before installing, as these are a full driver set and should be installed as such.

As for NFS: Underground the game runs surprisingly flawlessly on my somewhat feeble rig (AMD Athlon 1800, 512 RAM, Radeon 9700 Pro) at 1280 x 1024 with 6x AA and 8x Ansio settings, max detail on all parts of the game, and just looks swesome. Since going from an Nvidia card to ATI, I really have noticed a difference in terms of IQ so I'd give ATI the definite nod there.

There is a bug in NFS: Underground in BOTH ATI and NVidia cards in that the Anti-aliasing doesn't work unless you disable light trails and the blur effect. Hopefully a patch will address this, but with EA and the lack of one for NFS: Hot Pursuit 2, I'm doubtful.

This game is really a blast, but go to www.cheathappens.com for the cheats to unlock all tracks, cars, etc. if you don't want to endure career mode to unlock this stuff and just want to jump right into whatever course/car you want to.

And again, if you have an ATI card go grab that BETA 3.10 Cats. (they'll be certified and officially released, without the BETA tag, in December) NOW!

I have to confirm that about Catalysts 3.10 beta (hotfix)
THEY SEEM GREAT DRIVERS :)

I have installed them and all my problems solved

1-Call of Duty runs excellent and total stable now :)
(I even use the EXTRA option in Character detail even if have a Radeon 9800pro 128 memory card and not 256 and the game runs excellent)

2-EMPIRE DOMW has better performance and with no text corruption :)

Plus the Windows Desktop icons are way sharper lookin from previous CATS :o (especially the Nero 6 icon):D

I changed my mind and i will stay with ATI :D
I am looking forward to see the Catalysts 3.10 Whql soon...

cavalier
11-21-03, 03:00 PM
Hey Sotos,

No need to upgrade when the official 3.10's arrive in December.

They will be identical to the BETAs you're running now, except they will be WHQL certified (which means nothing really, except Microsoft likes 'em, too and says so) so I'd just keep the BETAS on your system until the 3.11's hit (although, unless you're having a specific problem with a driver, it's always good to hang onto the current one you've got and forgo the newest one...just in case).

Glad you've found your cure. Remember, never doubt ATI and keep the faith in 'em!

NickSpolec
11-21-03, 04:19 PM
I think the combination of SmartGart enabling AGP 8x with a Radeon 9x00 is causing a lot of the crashing problems.

OWA
11-21-03, 09:03 PM
Just to report back, it seems to run fine on the AIW 9800 Pro (3.9s), 5900U (53.30s), and Ti4600 (45.23s). The interesting thing is that the game defaults to high detail on everything but the 5900U. Anyway, I can run the game at 1280x1024x32 with all options maxed and it is very smooth on both the 9800P and 5900U. The Ti4600 is a little choppy but does pretty well at 1024x768 and shadows turned down one notch.

SH64
11-21-03, 10:32 PM
1)Cavalier : i'm not just talking about a normal bugs here or crash to desktop .. its a crash & the PC lockups! and keep in mind that i used a 9800 pro & now an XT .
yesterday i was playing Uru:ages beyond myst on 9800XT & after a while the game crashed & the PC locked up .. its only happend once . i hope its not a seriuos issue , also if you forced the AF from the control panel you will see a courrpted horizental lines in the game & they wont go unless you set AF to app & restart the PC & this didint happen with 5900u. again i'm not sure if its just an XT bug or it applied to other ATI cards & drivers .
i know about the hotfix for the 3.9 & thats cool.
i'm not here to barg about ati drivers but i found same games favours one card over the other .

i just got NFSU & its running good so far with the 5900u & yes i confirm that the AA is not working while motion blur is enabled.

2)OWA : the pause in the game as you said is called "stuttring" .. just exactly what i had with 52.16 . try 45.23 & the game will play fine with them.
thats another examle that no driver is perfect :D

Sotos
11-22-03, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by cavalier
Hey Sotos,

No need to upgrade when the official 3.10's arrive in December.

They will be identical to the BETAs you're running now, except they will be WHQL certified (which means nothing really, except Microsoft likes 'em, too and says so) so I'd just keep the BETAS on your system until the 3.11's hit (although, unless you're having a specific problem with a driver, it's always good to hang onto the current one you've got and forgo the newest one...just in case).

Glad you've found your cure. Remember, never doubt ATI and keep the faith in 'em!

Ok!! :)


"""Remember, never doubt ATI and keep the faith in 'em!"""""
Why you sound to me a little like a ATI fanatic ;)

It's nice to see ATI improving and doing the best they can do...
I am happy with 3.10 beta until now :)
I was dissapointed with Cat 3.9 and some "made by Activision games" but fortunately ATI releaded Cat 3.10 beta soon and i am happy again :)

If they continue with these way Nvidia will be history :p :p

Sotos
11-22-03, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by NickSpolec
I think the combination of SmartGart enabling AGP 8x with a Radeon 9x00 is causing a lot of the crashing problems.

I can not blame only the Radeon for that
It depends from your motherboard also

Anyway i am not having problems with my Agp8x and my Radeon
and any problems that i had was because of the ATI drivers...
but now Cat 3.10 fixed some of my recents problems :)

Sotos
11-22-03, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by SH64
1)Cavalier : i'm not just talking about a normal bugs here or crash to desktop .. its a crash & the PC lockups! and keep in mind that i used a 9800 pro & now an XT .
yesterday i was playing Uru:ages beyond myst on 9800XT & after a while the game crashed & the PC locked up .. its only happend once . i hope its not a seriuos issue , also if you forced the AF from the control panel you will see a courrpted horizental lines in the game & they wont go unless you set AF to app & restart the PC & this didint happen with 5900u. again i'm not sure if its just an XT bug or it applied to other ATI cards & drivers .
i know about the hotfix for the 3.9 & thats cool.
i'm not here to barg about ati drivers but i found same games favours one card over the other .

i just got NFSU & its running good so far with the 5900u & yes i confirm that the AA is not working while motion blur is enabled.

2)OWA : the pause in the game as you said is called "stuttring" .. just exactly what i had with 52.16 . try 45.23 & the game will play fine with them.
thats another examle that no driver is perfect :D

I see your point :)

New drivers does not always mean better from previous ones fro some new games, and that applies both to ATi and Nvidia and not only to ATI or only to Nvidia.

Morrow
11-22-03, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by SH64
OWA : the pause in the game as you said is called "stuttring" .. just exactly what i had with 52.16 . try 45.23 & the game will play fine with them.
thats another examle that no driver is perfect :D

try the latest 53.03, those fixes the stuttering.

OWA
11-22-03, 12:11 PM
2)OWA : the pause in the game as you said is called "stuttring" .. just exactly what i had with 52.16 . try 45.23 & the game will play fine with them.
Most of the stuttering I've experienced with the nvidia drivers is a really choppy type stutter that is most prevalent when panning around the scene. This didn't seem to be the same thing so that's why I phrased it as pausing. Say the normal stutter interval occurs like every 0.2 seconds (which would make panning or anything else very choppy). What I was seeing with NFSU was more like an interval of 3.0 or 4.0 seconds. So, you'd go a little ways having silky smooth gameplay, then it was like someone pressing the pause key then pressing it again to continue, etc.. Would this still be classified as stutter? I wasn't sure so that's why I used "pause".

Like the last post mentioned though, it seems to be gone with the 53.03s.

Pafet
11-22-03, 03:17 PM
On my 4200Ti it pauses every new section of the course but only on the first run. If I restart it deosn't do that. But it doesn't read from HD, maybe from main mem.
I'm using 52.16 now

The game is fun but they make you go over and over the same course. The drafting part is tha best :cool:

Woodelf
11-22-03, 08:42 PM
Don't buy a $4-500.00 video card for one game. Buy it for Direct x 9.

OWA
11-23-03, 12:14 AM
At 1280x1024 and using 4xAA, 8xAF, motion blur and light trails I seem to hover in the 30'ish to 40'ish range with the det 53.03 (5900U). With the Cat 3.9s (9800P), I'm only getting around 20-25 fps when using the same settings. Is the AA bug in terms of AA not being enabled when motion blur and light trails are on (even if you're trying to force it on) or is the AA bug the performance hit associated with using AA, motion blur and light trails together or is it more along the lines of the issue with Halo and AA where turning on AA kills performance but even so, it's not providing any real benefit? What I'm getting at is wondering if I should give the Cat 3.10s a shot to see if it helps. But, if the game has a "feature" kind of like Halo then it would basically be pointless for me to try 3.10s (for this game anyway).