New NV40 rumours(Stoled/Quoted from Uttar)

[DSC]

Sorry Uttar, had to steal/quote this from you. :D ;)

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9217

Here are 10 "NV40 facts" ( okay, some are not 100% sure, but some seem pretty darn reliable to me, I'd be surprised if 60% of it wasn't right )

NV40
---
1) 600Mhz core on IBM's 0.13u technology, 48GB/s memory bandwidth with 256-bit GDDR2
2) 8x2 ( possibly 16x0 or 16x1 mode, although I'd find that rather stupid personally due to the focus on AA ).
3) FP32/FP16/FX16, this means PS1.4. is done in FX16 100% legally, while it would seem logical for PS2.0. partial precision to be done in FP16 unless MS decides to expose the HW better in an upcoming DX9 revision.
4) ( unsure ) HUGE die, NVIDIA is most likely artificially increasing die size to make cooling more efficient.
5) Slightly beyond PS3.0. / VS3.0. specificiations ( not anywhere as much as PS2.0.+ and VS2.0.+ were compared to the PS/VS2.0. standard though, I assume ).
6) Support of a Programmable Primitive Processor
7) The only units being shared between the VS and the PS are the texture lookup units ( NOT addressing units; addressing is still done on a standard FP32 unit ).
8 ) Most likely no 512MB version, that's still overkill IMO.
9) PCI-Express support, most likely ( but not certainly ) through a compatibility bridge between AGP and PCI-Express.
10) Completely new AA algorithm, most likely a stochaistic(sp?) approach.
---
Release: February-March 2004

Hope this brings back some life into this forum.... :p

[MUYA]

WoooooWeeeeeeeee
:eek:

Sounds like one hot mama!!...figuratively and physically probably! I bet you could fry an egg on that die!

/me starts to save up now....


GIVE ME FREE AA and AF!! :D

at least 4XAA for free?

MUYA

[Malfunction]

Hot Damn!!!

I am so there too MUYA! :D I want this card. This card will be mine. :drooling:

1 more thing....

Thank the Hardware God's for Nvidia's New AA Algorithm!!!

Peace,

:jumping:

[The Baron]

I wonder if stochastic AA will have the same level of hit as an atomic fadunk.

[Uttar]

Yeah, you stole me that quote alright :P ;)

A quick precision though: I'm really, really not sure how many FP units are in each pipeline. And without that crucial bit of information, the NV40's PS performance could either be complete crap or it could be fricking amazing. I'm not placing any bets, yet.

Plus, for once I did decide to post something rumor-related, which I'm not supposed to do ( but hey, that's ALL old info! The only "new" fact is it's all in the same post :P ), see how much people seem to read it. Lol. Pitiful :rolleyes:

;) ;) :P


Uttar

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Malfunction
Thank the Hardware God's for Nvidia's New AA Algorithm!!!
Truer words were never spoken!

[nForceMan]

Originally posted by Uttar
I'm really, really not sure how many FP units are in each pipeline.

Lots of. :bugeyes:
;)

[Paul]

Er, yeah. None of this is new at all. Glad to see people have been reading the numerous threads that have carried this information, along with Uttar's own NFI site ;)

[mikechai]

~60% faster than NV38...

[Woodelf]

Well, one of these day's they are bound to get it right again. Smart for them to not openly brag about true specs to the public this time.
That is if it's really this close to launch.
:)

[Uttar]

Originally posted by Woodelf
Well, one of these day's they are bound to get it right again. Smart for them to not openly brag about true specs to the public this time.
That is if it's really this close to launch.
:)

Believe it or not, if some rather unreliable things I heard about the R420 are true... NVIDIA doesn't quite stand a chance. They won't get beaten badly I'd assume; but winning against ATI, performance-wise? Only if what I've heard is false, which is quite possible indeed since it includes speculation-based-on-fact(TM).

The R420 should be launched 1-2 months after the NV40 if all goes as expected, though. Oh, and keep in mind February-March is for the launch. Even if reviewers get them quickly, I find it unlikely to see any kind of non-very-limited avaibility before early April.


Uttar

[The Baron]

Uttar, if they're things you heard from Hellbinder, they're automagically false :)

Oh, and by the way--what's the status of R420 and precisions? Is it still FP24, or did it move to FP32? And if it moved, does it have FP16 as well?

[digitalwanderer]

IIRC the R420 will be FP24 just like the R3xx and ATi isn't making the move to FP32 'til it's actually required. :)

[Uttar]

Originally posted by The Baron Uttar, if they're things you heard from Hellbinder, they're automagically false :)

Hehe :P
Nah, I don't really communicate much with HB. Most of my R420 info is from:
- Misc. sources ( MuFu, mostly )
- Fudo
- Analyst(s) ( regarding transistor figures being very aggressive, ATI not wanting to lose this war since they know how important it is to increase their monumentum ).

Why would the R420 win performance-wise? Well, because it got a lot of transistors, probably at least as much as the NV40 ( could be 160M+, in worst case scenarios, eh, if ATI still expects the NV40 to only have 150M - who knows ), and doesn't seem too focus on features because of its important R300 heritage. ( FP24 w/ no FP32 support, no PPP, and possibly an h4x0r-like approach when it comes to certain PS/VS features ).


Oh, and by the way--what's the status of R420 and precisions? Is it still FP24, or did it move to FP32? And if it moved, does it have FP16 as well?

FP24 all the way, baby! :D

---

BTW, I suspect yet another crappy marketing approach when it comes to defining pipelines in the NV40. I suggest you don't believe all the launch PR about it; trust serious reviewers like DaveB, Rev, ... and give the poor synthetic benchmarks a chance - they deserve it ;)


Uttar

[ClyssaN]

ahhh some rumor mill stuff, its just great to read all this rumors, hmm yaaaaah baby :D

[Nutty]

I personally think, if NV get it right this time, with pretty much everything working as it should, then they'll be on top performance wise..

New AA too.. blimey, must be christmas or somat.. :)

[Malfunction]

With all the praise the Quadro FX 3000 is getting lately, I am extremely hopefull. :thumbsup: It's about time too! ;)

Peace,

:jumping:

[Viral]

If most of the R420 rumors are true NV40 will need all Nvidia can throw at it..

I just hope the competition heats up alot more... Nvidia's new AA algortithm is one thing that will help the move towards this. I think ATi should move should definately rework AF, if not AA as well.

ATi may fall behind in memory bandwidth by the sounds of things.. i just hope they have over 30gb/s, that should be enough. The main rumor that makes the R420 look so great is the 16x1 architecture!!! I would have never believed it afew months ago but it is looking likely now.

Good luck Nvidia, i wouldn't mind another nvidia card again, the NV45 may be a serious option if i can wait that long, if not a matured NV40 would also be nice, all depends on competition:)

[volt]

AFAIC, ATI's multisampling (with jitter) is pretty darn efficient AND effective. What would matter to me is, if on R420 FSAA became free :)

[Viral]

Originally posted by volt
AFAIC, ATI's multisampling (with jitter) is pretty darn efficient AND effective. What would matter to me is, if on R420 FSAA became free :)

I guess you have a point there. My major concern is AF. Currently it is the only IQ aspect that can be arguably worse than Nvidias. Also i'd like to see no hit from AF seeing i demand sharp textures in all my games.

[Evanescence]

Believe it or not, if some rather unreliable things I heard about the R420 are true... NVIDIA doesn't quite stand a chance.

Yes :zzzz: :zzzz: ... You can tell a lot if the day is long enought.

It's sounds like Ati is already the winner. I did't knew that you have a Tepid-able NV40 to be in possiotion to judge who win. Perhaps you have a glass ball?:headbang:

[sxotty]

Originally posted by Viral
I guess you have a point there. My major concern is AF. Currently it is the only IQ aspect that can be arguably worse than Nvidias. Also i'd like to see no hit from AF seeing i demand sharp textures in all my games.

Why do you want no hit? They could run some code to make it go slow if AF was not enabled and then turn it off so you thought you had not hit, maybe that is what companies should do...

[nobie]

Originally posted by sxotty
Why do you want no hit? They could run some code to make it go slow if AF was not enabled and then turn it off so you thought you had not hit, maybe that is what companies should do...

or have parts of the chip sit idle when no AF is used :cool:

[hkultala]

Originally posted by volt
AFAIC, ATI's multisampling (with jitter) is pretty darn efficient AND effective. What would matter to me is, if on R420 FSAA became free :)

FSAA just requires more work to be done than no FSAA.

If your FSAA is completely free, it means that you render suboptimally when not doing antialiasing.

Getting as close as possible to doing just the necessarily amount more than without AA is what should be preferred,
"not wasting anything when doing AA"

[The Baron]

free AA to me is AA with <5% performance hit. that'd be nice.