PDA

View Full Version : NVIDIA - please take note (control panel gripes)


gordon
09-24-02, 04:00 PM
OK. Deep breath.

I have had 3dfx cards since 3dfx cards first came out, and despite the odd wobble the drivers have always improved with each release and have had good functionality. This is the standard by which I judge drivers from other companies.

One of my PCs has a Ti4600. Nice card, no complaints there. Excellent drivers too, improve with every release (the 40.52s crash Medievel Total War and Shogun but I am sure that will be fixed in the next release).

My beef is the FUNCTIONALITY of the aforementioned said drivers. Nvidia is a big grown-up company now and it's time it trusted it's customers with a little functionality in the drivers.

Example: I want to turn vsync off in D3D. Can I? No. Not unless I use a third party utility or reg hack like in Coolbits. WHY NOT NVIDIA? Reward your customers with this small offering PLEASE.

Worse Example: My desktop brightness is fine, but D3D and OpenGl games are so dark I can hardly see what is happening on the screen. Solution? Turn up the brightness? No, if I do that the desktop is blindingly bright. I have to use a third party utility, powerstrip, to adjust the brightness in D3D and OpenGl otherwise the card is useless. 3DFX, God rest their souls, provided seperate brightness/gamma sliders for desktop, D3D and OpenGl in their driver utilities. Do Nvidia? No! Why not? Is it too much to ask?

Come on Nvidia, you can do this. Don't make us use third party utilities just to be able to use the card.

Matthyahuw
09-24-02, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by gordon
Example: I want to turn vsync off in D3D. Can I? No. Not unless I use a third party utility or reg hack like in Coolbits. WHY NOT NVIDIA? Reward your customers with this small offering PLEASE.HUH:confused:
http://matthyahuw.com/Images/v-sync.jpg
Worse Example: My desktop brightness is fine, but D3D and OpenGl games are so dark I can hardly see what is happening on the screen. Solution? Turn up the brightness? No, if I do that the desktop is blindingly bright. I have to use a third party utility, powerstrip, to adjust the brightness in D3D and OpenGl otherwise the card is useless. 3DFX, God rest their souls, provided seperate brightness/gamma sliders for desktop, D3D and OpenGl in their driver utilities. Do Nvidia? No! Why not? Is it too much to ask?

Come on Nvidia, you can do this. Don't make us use third party utilities just to be able to use the card. And as for this, I dunno...but I heard a lot of ppl have this issue a couple years ago...but it seemed to be fixed ages ago, you might want to check in-game gamma settings...and if you haven't reformatted before installing the GF card in, and you had another brand of card in the same puter, that messes up gamma settings too...

thcdru2k
09-24-02, 10:54 PM
i can't seem to get the vsync to show with the new drivers, but yes it has been there for old drivers.

about the brightness and stuff...??? i never heard of such a thing.

nvidia drivers are top notch, tell me one card that has better.

LORD-eX-Bu
09-25-02, 01:50 AM
S3 virge! jk. :D

Nutty
09-25-02, 03:40 AM
I have the same problem.

Working on a pc all day, I have my desktop pretty dark, I have to bump the brightness and contrast everytime I play a game. This is on every card I've ever used.

gordon
09-28-02, 03:21 AM
I have a Ti4600.

The in-game gamma and brightness settings are set to highest and it is still too dark when switching to OpenGl and D3D games.
The situation improved somewhat but nowhere near enough in a recent driver release - I don't know which ones.
If the brightness is turned up on the monitor then the desktop is blidingly bright when switching back.

A third party utility like powerstrip is essential just to be able to play games on the top of the line nvidia product. Shameful.

The piccie of the vsync option in D3D is nice - I have that too. But only after installing coolbits!

I was holding out for an NV30 to replace my 3 remaining Voodoo 5 cards, but I am getting so ticked off by this I am about ready to jump ship and try the new 9700.

EvilEngine
09-28-02, 03:35 AM
Why are you guys complaining about color and gamma for? The settings are in the drivers:
http://evilengine.apokalyptik.com/compare/color.jpg

PCarr78
09-28-02, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
i can't seem to get the vsync to show with the new drivers, but yes it has been there for old drivers.

about the brightness and stuff...??? i never heard of such a thing.

nvidia drivers are top notch, tell me one card that has better.

Matrox

gordon
09-28-02, 08:07 AM
"Why are you guys complaining about color and gamma for? The settings are in the drivers"

Wow Evilengine2, I have that colour control applet too !!!

But it sets global colour, not gamma/brightness seperately for D3D, OpenGl and desktop.

Thanks for trying to help, but please read and understand the thread. The users are complaining that one overall gamma setting is not good enough, settings for desktop are too dark for OpenGl and D3D. Increasing gamma for D3D and OpenGl results in a desktop that is too bright.

nvidia drivers are top notch, tell me one card that has better - thcdru2k

No-one is complaining about the drivers. They want extra functionality ie seperate gamma settings for OpenGl, D3D and desktop. 3DFX (God rest their souls) had seperate colour controls, so it can be done, if Nvidia can be bothered.

False Christian
10-06-02, 09:09 PM
Yes, I agree that 3dfx made the best drivers ever. I, too, think nVidia's got give a nice looking control panel like ATI's done with their Catalyst suite.

koneill
10-07-02, 12:37 AM
i have to wonder how sensitive my eyes are to brightness, because ever since i've been into hardware, and therefore graphics cards, i've heard people complain about games being "way too dark" with in-game gamma "all the way up."

somehow, i don't see it. i tweak the gamma for some games i play, but to say that they're still "way too dark" after ramping the in-game gamma "all the way up," well... that's a bit silly.

ramping up the gamma even 50% makes everything super bright and washed out looking with no contrast and pasty colors - kind of like what 3dfx's graphics looked like back in the Voodoo/2 days. =)

weird... maybe people need to buy better monitors.

Chalnoth
10-07-02, 10:17 AM
Yeah, I haven't had any in-game brightness problems for a couple of years...not since I was playing on a TNT 16MB and tried to load up GLQuake...

gordon
10-07-02, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I haven't had any in-game brightness problems for a couple of years...not since I was playing on a TNT 16MB and tried to load up GLQuake...

I don't mean to sound disrespectful Chalnoth, I have great respect for you having read your many posts on this board, but others, including myself, are having brightness problems.

My Creative Ti4600 is running on an IIyama 19 incher, the flat screen jobby. If I run it on my IIyama 19 inch non-flat screen jobby it is still too dark in D3D and OpenGl while being just right on the desktop. Turning up the brightness in OpenGl and D3D doesn't wash out the colours, it just makes it viewable. There must be thousands of these monitors out there.

There IS a problem here, Nvidia could solve the problem by supplying seperate brightness sliders for OpenGl, D3D and desktop, the way 3DFX used to. As it is, Powerstrip corrects the problem perfectly but that is more money to fork out just to be able to use the Nvidia product.

Chalnoth
10-07-02, 07:42 PM
I'm just curious as to why...

As a side note, I fired up GLQuake again, and it was, again, far too dark.

All of my more modern games, and the demos I've tried, had essentially perfect brightness settings right out of the box, and if that wasn't enough, there's usually a brightness slider that works just fine.

Now, which games, specifically, are you having brightness problems with if default game settings are used (and you're using an adequate desktop brightness)? Do these games just have brightness sliders that don't go bright enough? Or do they have sliders that don't work or don't exist?

Oh, and by the way, there's a slightly less-than elegant way to solve any brightness problem on an nVidia graphics card, and that's to use the QuickTweak icon on the taskbar, save a couple of different color profiles, and switch between them before/after running a game.

TheOneKEA
10-08-02, 06:09 AM
One word: xgamma.

Maybe there's something similar for Win32 boxes.

gordon
10-08-02, 12:13 PM
Thanks for the reply Chalnoth.

I have the in-game gamma maxxed in Unreal, Unreal Tournament, half-life, Quake3, Wolfenstein, MOHAA. Still too dark unless I:

a) increase the brightness overall via Nvidia control panel in which case everything else (ie everything 2D) is blindingly bright.
b) increase the brightness via the monitor controls in which case everything else (ie everything 2D) is blindingly bright.
c) use custom settings for each game via powerstrip.

Your quicktweak tip sounds cool. Thanks.

But why oh why oh why can't nvidia provide seperate brightness controls?

Chalnoth
10-08-02, 04:37 PM
That's rather different...on my system, with those same games, default color usually works just great, and I always choose a setting below max brightness.

Since we have essentially the same video card, it seems incredibly strange that just a monitor could cause such a huge difference.

Have you tried simply calibrating your monitor?

Here's a quick and rough way to calibrate your monitor:

1. Turn off desktop wallpaper, set desktop color to black.

2. Adjust brightness level until background black is just as black as the surrounding border (usually visible below the displayed screen)

3. Adjust constrast level so that the whites look reasonably white.

Gamma, for most video cards, should not be adjusted for desktop applications, for the simple reason that it will cause color banding. This shouldn't be an issue for video cards that support higher-precision color, such as the Parhelia and Radeon 9700.

Jedi Dwight
10-12-02, 11:17 PM
Once again: Microsoft requires that for a driver to be WHQL certified, VSync is on for Direct3D apps. Part of the deal is that they don't want someone to turn it off, and then complain that the tearing is bad, or they don't want an onlooker to see the tearing and say, 'gee, DirectX sucks'.

So nVIDIA is only option is to conceal the Vsync toggle setting in their drivers.

I only bother with coolbits if I want to play with overclocking or if I'm running a benchmark. Just save it in a drivers folder and don't sweat it.

walkndude
10-13-02, 05:28 PM
Am I mistaken that monitor profiles will also affect gamma/color levels. I have a feeling that is were the problem is for some of those having gamma issues.

DaveW
10-14-02, 09:22 PM
Some monitors are just to dark. The apparent luminance varies between resolutions and refresh rates. If you reduce your refresh rate (as usually happens when you load a game), the screen actually goes darker. My old "crappy" compaq monitor doesn't do this. But I have seen newer Viewsonics and others that do.

3dfx cards always a wacked out gamma curve. Everything was too bright and game developers compensated by making all the textures darker. Now we have NVIDIA cards with a proper gamma scale and so all those old games look too dark.

Ideally you shouldn't need to alter gamma in software (drivers). All you are doing is shifting the palette range up and truncating half the colors off the top e.g. - RGB(0,0,0) becomes RGB(64,64,64) and everything from RGB(191,191,191) and above becomes washed out pure white. If you have to resort to adjusting brightness in your drivers then your monitor needs replacing.

Chalnoth
10-14-02, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by DaveW
Some monitors are just to dark. The apparent luminance varies between resolutions and refresh rates. If you reduce your refresh rate (as usually happens when you load a game), the screen actually goes darker. My old "crappy" compaq monitor doesn't do this. But I have seen newer Viewsonics and others that do.

Hrm, I didn't realize that, and it could most definitely explain why the brightness in games on some peoples' computers is much darker than the desktop. So, perhaps a possible remedy would be to make certain that the in-game refresh rate is the same as the desktop refresh rate? The newer 40.72 drivers have a refresh rate overriding panel.