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{Sniping}Waste
12-22-03, 04:11 PM
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1937 :D :eek:

Preforms faster in 10 out of 19 tests then a P4 3.2C.

Dazz
12-22-03, 04:21 PM
And at half the price :) also you can have 1 DIMM or 2+ if you like which makes it more flexable. Quite good for something that has half the bandwith and is conseritve with the rating. More like it's rating is to go up against the Prescott.

Malfunction
12-22-03, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Dazz
And at half the price :) also you can have 1 DIMM or 2+ if you like which makes it more flexable. Quite good for something that has half the bandwith and is conseritve with the rating. More like it's rating is to go up against the Prescott.

Ummm, the 2.8C is at NewEgg.com for $208 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-162&catalog=343&depa=1) and overclocks easy to 3.5Ghz with Retail HSF. How is a AMD 64 3000+ the best bang for buck when it cost $220 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-425&catalog=343&depa=1) and requires a Aftermarket HSF to even consider overclocking and the mobo is more expensive than a i865/i875 solution? The the sad thing was Anand was happy just booting into Windows XP @ 9x239FSB but couldn't run complete test? This is your price/performance champ?

You guys are funny...

Peace,

:afro:

{Sniping}Waste
12-22-03, 05:01 PM
That 2000gig to 2200gig is like P4C at 3.8 to just keep up. The i875 board are not cheap and start at $150 to $200 and a AMD64 MB that matches a i875 is about $90 to $140 so the cheaper I875 is a LIE. The i865 is cheaper but has slower preformans then the i865 but still cost $120 to $160 so even the i865 being cheaper is a LIE. :eek: :rolleyes:

Malfunction
12-22-03, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by {Sniping}Waste
That 2000gig to 2200gig is like P4C at 3.8 to just keep up. The i875 board are not cheap and start at $150 to $200 and a AMD64 MB that matches a i875 is about $90 to $140 so the cheaper I875 is a LIE. The i865 is cheaper but has slower preformans then the i865 but still cost $120 to $160 so even the i865 being cheaper is a LIE. :eek: :rolleyes:

Man, you still don't read do you? Performance (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-p4p800_9.html)

And here is the Price (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-459&depa=1)

You were wrong about the 5900SE's performance, yet you fail to take the advice of educating yourself in the topics which you attempt to participate in. I am not lying and I am not forcasting a shadow to those who don't know very much about this stuff. Do yourself a favor and take some of the advice as a kind gesture from someone who is only trying to help you grow.

Peace,

:afro:

Edit- Believed I could have said what I did in a better manner. ;)

The Baron
12-22-03, 05:39 PM
I will buy an Athlon64/AthlonFX when I have an nForce 3 250 motherboard.

Not before. And even then, only if the motherboard has a PCI frequency divider like my nF2.

stncttr908
12-22-03, 06:03 PM
While I am a fan of AMD, I'd be a liar if I said the P4 'c' versions don't give them a damn good run for their money. As mentioned, they overclock damn well right out of the box and aren't that unreasonably priced. To dispute the fact that they're not a damn good proc/chipset combo would be fanboy-ish.

{Sniping}Waste
12-22-03, 07:17 PM
If you want to go that root then beat a T-berd b 1700+ that is overclocked to 2.2 on air for its price. The nice thing is the socket 754 boards will have cpus for it for 2 years and the 478 will be lucky to have cpus made for it after summer. The AMD64 is the better choise here and that why when a custermer wants a high end system I point them to a AMD64 and not a Intel. Oh and on the 5900SE at $180 for the EVGA Im hearing the parts for the filtering might be low end so the Image is not so good. A 9800 non pro will beat a 5900 se but its hard to find one for $200 but if your looking for the best card for the price its a software moded 9800SE 256 bit mem bus at $150. A 9500 pro is a great card and that person will not have to think about if the game he is buying is optimized or not(it will work and run right). The FX cards need a optimized code or it will run slow ormay have artifacts.
I sell ATI FIRE GL X1 128 hardware moded to Radeon 9700 PROs for $200 and will be faster then the 5900SE. http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33721415

Viral
12-22-03, 09:09 PM
Malfunction, no one brought up overclocking.. many people don't overclock. As sniping waste just pointed out, if you want overclocking price/performance, then AMD also has many nice solutions.

The facts are AMD's K8 processors are very good performers, ATM they are being held back by poor mobo's, and that is one of the reasons i won't buy an A64 yet (that and my current system is just fine). People are overclocking K8's very well, A64's currently hold the top scores on 3dmark 2k1 and 2k3. So what if you think booting with a 239mhz FSB is unimpressive.. anand dont. You can't go comparing to what you can do with your P4, it doesn't work that wat. For starters, K7's/K8's dont need high memory bandwidth, this is shown by the fact that the 3000+ performs very close to the 3200+ with half the L2 cahce. It is also shown by the fact that the A64 only uses single channel DDR, and still performs well in real world benchmarks despite this fact. Besides, people have obtained 'FSB's' of well over 300 with A64's, is that not impressive?

Here are the facts, stop trying to argue with them:
In almost every benchmark, the 3000+ is only a few percent lower in performance than a 3200+. Even more important, the 3000+ performs very well compared to Intelís 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 ó a chip that sells for almost double the cost of the Athlon64 3000+.
There are a lot of AMD potential buyers who want a more reasonably-priced Athlon64 that will out-game Intelís top 3.2 and 3.0 chips. The Athlon 64 3000+ is also that chip. You get the bragging rights that the 3000+ does outperform the 3.2 in most games at a price that most budgets can handle. The Athlon 64 3000+ looks like a winner!



Edit- Believed I could have said what I did in a better manner.

Perhaps this is because you are clutching at straws?:p

Malfunction
12-22-03, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by stncttr908
While I am a fan of AMD, I'd be a liar if I said the P4 'c' versions don't give them a damn good run for their money. As mentioned, they overclock damn well right out of the box and aren't that unreasonably priced. To dispute the fact that they're not a damn good proc/chipset combo would be fanboy-ish.

Ya, some people are just to fanboy-ish to the core to see past it. Oh well, they help drive the prices down on the parts I buy so keep on keeping on. Someones gotta be a http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1Ivui9pXhIAC:caribou.cc.trincoll.edu/orgs_sga/lolipop.gif

Peace,

:afro:

B&R
12-23-03, 01:47 AM
yes.. for high-end.

Dazz
12-23-03, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Malfunction
Ummm, the 2.8C is at NewEgg.com for $208 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-162&catalog=343&depa=1) and overclocks easy to 3.5Ghz with Retail HSF. How is a AMD 64 3000+ the best bang for buck when it cost $220 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-425&catalog=343&depa=1) and requires a Aftermarket HSF to even consider overclocking and the mobo is more expensive than a i865/i875 solution? The the sad thing was Anand was happy just booting into Windows XP @ 9x239FSB but couldn't run complete test? This is your price/performance champ?

You guys are funny...

Peace,

:afro: Come on Malfunction, if you overclock 1 CPU the compeditor has to be overclocked also other wise it's worthless to even bring it up. Fact is at defualt speed it's faster then a P4 3.2GHz (Depending on what you do) at half the price. Also the P4 NEED's at least 2 DIMM's of the same make and size to give best peformance and dual channel mode. The again it's like compairing a well tried and tests P4 against a new Athlon 64 which is still has a ways to go.

Again the P4C @ 3.5GHz will be faster in applications with HT but the extra 200~400MHz from the Athlon64 will make it noticably faster due to extra bandwith and increased clock on it's intergrated memory controller.

Also forgot to say that all tests people have taking against the P4 was an the i875 board, it will be worse on a i865 now PAT is removed. Also the Athlon64 is faster on a SIS 755 (which is currently highest peformance AMD64 board) and costs around $80 or less.

AMD64 3000+ OEM ($213) + ASUS K8V DELUXE($130) + 512MB PC3500Gen (433MHz) ($65) + TT Silent boost HSF($24) = $432

P4 2.8C OEM ($197) ($210 retail) 2x 256MB PC4000Gen (500MHz)($101) Asus (Motherboards) ASUS P4P800 DELUXE($123) + Spark 7($24) = $445 OEM / Retail $434

(Added 500MHz ram to the P4 can benifit from the extra memory bandwith)
Made modifications to Intel system as Pricewatch shows the P4800S (i848) as an i865PE.

-=DVS=-
12-23-03, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Malfunction
Ya, some people are just to fanboy-ish to the core to see past it. Oh well, they help drive the prices down on the parts I buy so keep on keeping on. Someones gotta be a lollypop
Peace,

:afro:

Comes from a person who is Intel fanboy :rolleyes: :p

Anyways i agree to what Dazz said , besides AMD is one step ahead of competition its a 64 bit CPU future proof :D

|JuiceZ|
12-23-03, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
I will buy an Athlon64/AthlonFX when I have an nForce 3 250 motherboard.

Not before. And even then, only if the motherboard has a PCI frequency divider like my nF2.

I agree. Besides, its always to best to let new hw mature before investing in it. Anways I still think 2004 will be a great yr for pc enthusiasts ;)

Malfunction
12-23-03, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
(Added 500MHz ram to the P4 can benifit from the extra memory bandwith)
Made modifications to Intel system as Pricewatch shows the P4800S (i848) as an i865PE.

Yes, I know if you overclock one that you must overclock the other. The thing is I have went to AMDzone and Anands waiting to see overclocking performance/results with the A64 3000+ and haven't seen any yet. I have however heard the same heat concerns that have always been synonymous with the name AMD. This I figured would have changed with the new architecture and has, but not by very much. After reading some more about this processor I have found despite AMD saying these CPU's have an unlocked multiplier you need a third party program to have full range. What's that all about? Wasn't this AMD's selling point at one time, that it was an enthusiast processor? Yet we still haven't seen how well the architecture perfroms during multi-threaded operations either, so we still don't know how having mulitple applications during say, "gameplay" affect the performance.

I haven't seen one i865 yet that has PAT disable with the new BIOS's out there. The fact that the inquirer said Intel was very displeased about the ability and is changing it has little to do with what has yet to happen still. New chipsets have been released but that was already part of the roadmap already, so that wasn't a move to counter the popularity of the i865.

I will agree that it is a great CPU for those who don't know anything about overclocking, however best price/performance is really stretching it and I can't possibly agree there.

You chose the Deluxe P4P800 for what reason in your comparison? You do realize that all deluxe means is it comes with IDE cables/SATA cables and extra audio ports correct? That is why I mentioned the Asus P4P800-Non Deluxe for $109 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-459&depa=1) in a reply above. I happen to like Asus more than any other company, however I could have thrown the Abit IS7-E (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-156&catalog=280&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1&section=3) that sells for $88 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-156&catalog=280&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1&section=3) but it still won't make any difference to you if you are an AMD fanboy. You also don't need a aftermarket HSF to overclock the P4C's, so retail would be just fine. Funny thing is that Asus has what they call the Ai overclocking feature which overclocks the CPU for you (raises FSB, does nothing to the bus ratio). At a setting of 20% with a 2.8C, it raises the CPU speed to 3.4Ghz. That is what I call enthusiast/mainstream targeted.

I am very interested in what makes the AMD 64 so great and inexpensive. I have alot of people ask me about them primarily because of cost and that is a great target for AMD. However, what is saving a few dollars here or there (which with a great AMD mobo compared to a Intel mobo, I found the AMD mobo to be more expensive at the moment) gonna cost you presently and in the long run.

I think these CPU's from AMD have potential and I am eagerly waiting till March to May to see what happens. However currently I have seen nothing that makes the current state of AMD's line a price/performance crown winner let alone heard any sites other than AMD fansites say it.

Peace,

:afro:

Dazz
12-23-03, 09:20 AM
I haven't seen one i865 yet that has PAT disable with the new BIOS's out there. The fact that the inquirer said Intel was very displeased about the ability and is changing it has little to do with what has yet to happen still. New chipsets have been released but that was already part of the roadmap already, so that wasn't a move to counter the popularity of the i865. No the new revision of the chipset no longer supports PAT, if you have an older revision you are safe.

You chose the Deluxe P4P800 for what reason in your comparison? You do realize that all deluxe means is it comes with IDE cables/SATA cables and extra audio ports correct? I choose the DELUXE version beacuse ASUS [i]ONLY[i/] ships their K8T800 as a DELUXE as such to be fair they should have the same features.

Dispite all this is means nothing, very few OEM's have already overclocked systems. The market to make the money is OEM, the enthusiast market is around 10%, so 90% of the systems won't ever be overclocked. The enthusiast market brings little money as they buy the cheapest processors and overclock them. If anything they are damaging the market.

Malfunction
12-23-03, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
No the new revision of the chipset no longer supports PAT, if you have an older revision you are safe.

Sorry, haven't seen it yet. The abilities are still present in Asus mobo's and it is call PAT, Abit's is called GAT.

Originally posted by Dazz
I choice the DELUXE version beacuse ASUS [i]ONLY[i/] ships their K8T800 as a DELUXE as such to be fair they should have the same features

That is BS...lmao :rofl

If Asus is the only one who makes a mobo remotely close to the price/performance of the i865, then that means it is not the price/performance hero...lmao. My goodness, you can see past your love for AMD at all can you?

Peace,

:rofl

Dazz
12-23-03, 09:41 AM
Theres still the ECS 755 board thats under $80 and comes with overclocking features, SATA & RAID, everyboard from SIS now come with RAID and SATA as standard.

And i couldn't really careless about the AMD64 754 + as i think it's dead end technology.

Malfunction
12-23-03, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
Theres still the ECS 755 board thats under $80 and comes with overclocking features, SATA & RAID, everyboard from SIS now come with RAID and SATA as standard.

Saying it, and linking it like I did are two different things. I can easily say I have seen a Abit IS7-E for $60 because it was a RMA. Does that make it valid if I don't provide you with the link?

Originally posted by Dazz
And i couldn't really careless about the AMD64 754 + as i think it's dead end technology.

I completely agree, the A64/754 is dead and the focus will/should be on the 939Pin for present/future. Though as it stands right now, it is not a performace/value to pursue currently. :)

Peace,

:afro:

Dazz
12-23-03, 10:04 AM
There you go $72 for a SIS755 board w/ LAN, SATA & RAID http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=SIS755&pid=965036

And the more demanding the applications are the higher it set's it's self from the others.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/chipsets/sis755/x2.png

Also heard the SIS board is locked for PCI/AGP and can support upto 500MHz (1GHz HT)

Malfunction
12-23-03, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
There you go $72 for a SIS755 board w/ LAN, SATA & RAID http://www.emicrox.com/eShop/product.aspx?cid=-1&more=1&keywords=SIS755&pid=965036

And the more demanding the applications are the higher it set's it's self from the others.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/chipsets/sis755/x2.png

Ya, I happen to like this Chaintech 9PJL3 SUMMIT P4 for $77 http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-9PJL3&c=pw myself. I mean... wow ya know, now we are really getting into the price/performace here. Just think about how much you save using retail HSF alone... a real nice one from Thermaltake for the Socket 754 is what.. $35 from what I've seen. :)

1 game huh... wow, that's cool. :cool:

Peace,

:afro:

Dazz
12-23-03, 10:19 AM
The overall price i did for the AMD64 had the ThermalTake Silentboost HSF which can be had for $24 which is decent.

Malfunction
12-23-03, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Dazz
The overall price i did for the AMD64 had the ThermalTake Silentboost HSF which can be had for $24 which is decent.

I honestly may have to pick up a A64/ECS mobo just to screw around with Dazz, thanks! :D However I still believe that what, a Chaintech 9PJL3 w/ 2.8C and retail HSF is a clear winner in price/performance for enthusiast/mainstream. Although I so see how a A64/ECS could be for the non overclocker.

Still a tuff decision no matter which coin you toss.

Peace,

:afro:

Dazz
12-23-03, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Malfunction
1 game huh... wow, that's cool. :cool:
Yeah but thats one of the most demanding games out also outpeforms all other chipsets in pretty much all games but this showed the most improvement in a percentage. Now SIS have made a turn around and are going to start making decent boards

Dazz
12-23-03, 10:30 AM
I don't like Chaintech at all, i've had 2 of their boards and they both gave me nothing but problems, also they hardly EVER update their BIOS, their best nF2 range has only had 2 updates. I find it hard to recommend them to anyone, other than they look nice.