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View Full Version : do 3d glasses really work?


Gator
09-27-02, 11:18 AM
Honestly, do those 3d glasses REALLY work? How would they be with a GF4 TI4400? Would they work well with UT, UT2k3, and Alien vs Preditor 2? I'm really skeptical as you can tell.

If someone fired a rocket at me, do you think I'd feel a rush as it's coming near me?

And if they are worth it, give me some links of what to buy and where to buy them from please :)

DaveW
09-27-02, 12:30 PM
The effect of 3D Shutter Glasses (and those 3D LCD screens) is limited. They are based on stereopsis... two seperate images that when viewed with both eyes things look 3D. But the image is still really 2D... if you cover one eye, you wont see the effect. This means that your brain is confused... each eye individually sees a 2D image, but your visual cortex is putting the two images together and interpretting it as a 3D image. Since your brain doesn't know for sure if the image is 2D or 3D you can end up feeling sick or get a massive headache. To add to the confusing the shutter glasses leak light meant for the opposite eye, so you can see a double image "ghosting" effect. It is also hard to focus on the 3D image on your monitor, since the frame of the monitor and your desk around it is at a different focal depth. Its like trying to keep your focus on one of those Magic Eye pictures.

If you keep the effect (the 3D depth is adjustable in the drivers) turned to max, things do appear to fly at you, but its very difficult to keep your eyes focused on it, you end up with aching eyes, temporary short-sightedness and possibly vomitting.

If you keep the effect turned down real low then the glasses are easier to use, but you still get some ghosting and the 3D effect is much less.

Since each frame is rendered twice, using the glasses will half your fillrate (big performance impact). They also half the refresh rate of your monitor, so 120 hz looks like 60hz which results in even more eye-strain.

LCD shutter glasses are a novelty... they work better than most other 3D glasses, but they still don't work good enough.

OliverRedfox
09-27-02, 06:58 PM
I picked up a pair of Elsa 3d LCD glasses a few years ago for my old TNT-2 card. They were great. For driving games, like need for speed 3 the effect made a huge difference in the feel of the game. In games like Tomb Raider where the camera shifts around it took about 30 seconds for head to start spinning to feel sick, so I couldn't use it with those type games. With McGee's Alice it added a nice touch to the game but it wasn't as nice as the improvements I notice with car games.

Now jump to modern times. I still have the glasses but I can't get them work. Both with the Geforce2 I owned and now with my Geforce4 Ti. Elsa's drivers worked great but they stopped making them back in the TNT-2 days (I guess there was a way to make them work with Geforce cards but you had to enable TNT compability thus killing the use of the new card). Nvidia has 3d drivers but they are a bit buggy and unstable. Some people have no problem getting them to work while others run into blue screens with them. I've tried all the stuff on the support forums to try to get them to work, but no luck.

You can check out more at.
http://www.stereo3d.com/3dhome.htm
http://www.stereovision.net/
And the stereovision.net forums at
http://forums.stereovision.net/

Good luck. You can also use the nvidia stereo drivers to use red/blue 3d glasses.

The Baron
09-27-02, 08:09 PM
Oh well, I only see out of one eye at a time, so I suppose that's another one of things that are right out (just like every sport... damn lack of depth perception).

LordVampyre
09-27-02, 10:04 PM
They indeed do work.. the main problem with them.. after about 15-30 minutes of use.. youll have a major headach and after you take them off your vision is messed up for a while.

PCarr78
09-27-02, 10:49 PM
They suck.

The resolution is extremely low (because it needs double the refresh rate.)

Your framerate is also HALVED.

And the main problem is that the glasses do not ever become completely black. There is always light seeping through, screwing up the effect.

Also, shutter glasses give me, and everyone who's ever used them splitting headaches and pain behind the eyes.

3d glasses suck

thcdru2k
09-27-02, 11:45 PM
remember those 3d monitors that we're going to be released, but haven't yet to surfaced.

well heres a press release from sharp about a switchable lcd from 3d stereo view, to 2d view. pretty impressive technology.

http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/020927.html

zack
09-28-02, 01:19 AM
Got some with my geforce 4 ti4400. I think mine are broken. They seem to work randomly. How much should sell these for on ebay?

Smokey
09-28-02, 02:29 PM
I liked them when I had a pair with my TNT1 @ 1024*768 res.
I never had any headaches from using them or ever felt sick. You can also, well used to be able to take screenshots with the double image and see it in 3d using the glasses. The reason I stopped using them was the lake of drivers for them, as at the time Elsa updated drivers for thier cards first and didnt care much for the other Nvidia cards. The botttom line is, some people hate them, while the others love them :D

OliverRedfox
09-28-02, 07:23 PM
A remember a few years back some British artists created 3d lcd technology. They figured out how to lay stips of film onto normal lcd screens. It would split the the image so every other line on the screen would be project off to either the left or right eye. The only problem it had was that if you moved more then 15 degrees of center of the lcd the image was only apparent in 2d. To add it to the manifacturing of a standard lcd would cost less then $5 in parts. At the time no one was interested in the tech. They were working on a better version that would have multiple left/right fields so you could view it from any angle.

It's a great example of how some of the best technology comes from the little guys. No scientist, simply 2 people who had been making holographic photos for 20 years and figured out a cheap way to use it with computers. I'd love for them to release a monitor film-screen that you could just clip on over an lcd and turn it into 3d. All it would need is drivers to interlace the left and right eye images on the screen. And maybe a few adjustments up and down to get the film-screen inline with the monitor.

SavagePaladin
09-30-02, 02:52 AM
Actually dudes, I see a lot of reviews of the new E-Dimensional ones that say they flat out rock.

RoachMojo
12-26-02, 06:17 PM
Having a blast with my new glasses. Just thought I'd share my thoughts and recent experiences with them.

This is ther first time I have tried shutter glasses since H3D first came out. Played Tomb Raider and Quake back then, lots of flicker and ghosting. Couldn't even play for more than 10 min at a time or my eyes would cross.

Got these glasses and WOW, huge difference from past experience. Have played a lot of games with great success. Playing in 1024x768 100hz refresh, no AA.

My system:

P4 2.4@2.7ghz
Asus P4T-E w/512MB rambus
Geforce4 TI4600 30.87 Det w/30.87 stereo
Creative SB Audigy Gamer
Windows 98 SE
Viewsonic G810 21"

The only hardware problem I had was a random flicker that was quite annoying, and thanks to this forum and others, I tracked it to my 3Com net card: Network Link Selection, which was set to auto negotiate. Set it to 100mbps Full Duplex, and no more flashing. Video card only device on IRQ 11.

MOHAA Half-Life and Undying would lock up on me after a few seconds, but I am dual booting XP Home, and have run the nVidia_3dstereo_ru_2 drivers I found here, and installed Det 40.71 ( I didn't want to jinx the games I had working in Win98). MOHAA and Undying work now in XP. Half-Life still doesn't work properly, lots of flickering, but I will keep working on it.

These glasses are extremely uncomfortable after a few minutes, chaffing the nose. I'll have to find some solution for that, ouch.

Motocross Madness 2 is the game I show people, incredible with full seperation. Huge wow factor.

I sure hope Nvidia and game developers increase support for stereo glasses, working crosshairs would be great! Two of my gamer friends cannot wait to order these glasses, now.

ASCI Blue
12-28-02, 02:28 AM
I've heard they really work. Really work to give the user headaches.

RoachMojo
12-28-02, 02:54 AM
ASCI: They did in the past, bad headaches, but I have had none with these, and I have been playing straight for over a week!

I don't even feel the enormous eyestrain that usually comes with it. If only they worked fine for ALL games...


I love these glasses. :)

DaveW
12-28-02, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by OliverRedfox
A remember a few years back some British artists created 3d lcd technology. They figured out how to lay stips of film onto normal lcd screens. It would split the the image so every other line on the screen would be project off to either the left or right eye. The only problem it had was that if you moved more then 15 degrees of center of the lcd the image was only apparent in 2d. To add it to the manifacturing of a standard lcd would cost less then $5 in parts. At the time no one was interested in the tech. They were working on a better version that would have multiple left/right fields so you could view it from any angle.

It's a great example of how some of the best technology comes from the little guys. No scientist, simply 2 people who had been making holographic photos for 20 years and figured out a cheap way to use it with computers. I'd love for them to release a monitor film-screen that you could just clip on over an lcd and turn it into 3d. All it would need is drivers to interlace the left and right eye images on the screen. And maybe a few adjustments up and down to get the film-screen inline with the monitor.

I thought of that idea years before they did... I was only about 18 at the time and didn't have the forsight to patent it.

Nutty
12-28-02, 07:18 PM
They are based on stereopsis... two seperate images that when viewed with both eyes things look 3D. But the image is still really 2D... if you cover one eye, you wont see the effect.

Thats exactly how your real eyes work duh!
The image each eye gets is only 2d. Each eye is basically just a pinhole camera.

IF you cover one eye, you drastically lose depth perception. Although you wont notice it immediately as you remember your surroundings. Placed in a completely new room with 1 eye covered you would notice it tho.

I'm waiting for cerebral implant technology, to completely bypass our eyes.. yeah!! :D

DaveW
12-29-02, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Nutty
Thats exactly how your real eyes work duh!
The image each eye gets is only 2d. Each eye is basically just a pinhole camera.

IF you cover one eye, you drastically lose depth perception. Although you wont notice it immediately as you remember your surroundings. Placed in a completely new room with 1 eye covered you would notice it tho.

I'm waiting for cerebral implant technology, to completely bypass our eyes.. yeah!! :D

If you are blind in one eye you can still see depth, the lens in your eye changes shape to focus on object near or far. With shutter glasses and 3D techniques like it, the lenses in your eyes are focused at a screen 2 feet away from you. But the stereopsis effect tricks you into thinking that you are staring down a corridor to an object 100 feet away. Your visual system is seeing two depths at the same time which causes the headaches that people experience. The only flat image that can look 3D to a single eye is a hologram.

Nutty
12-29-02, 01:46 PM
With only 1 eye, you dont percieve depth. Only focal clarity. You can't percieve depth from a single point of view. Thats why we have two eyes, taking images from 2 points of view.

Having certain things out of focus with 1 eye doesn't give you the full ability of depth perception as 2 different images does.

DaveW
12-29-02, 06:42 PM
Binocular disparity is the best way to perceive depth for short distances (e.g. grabbing objects with your hands). But its not the only way we perceive depth, and stereoscopic cues don't work well at perceiving depth more than a few feet away. Parallax is another way. People with sight in only one eye subconsciously move their head in little left-right movements to get a sensation of parallax when viewing an object. Shutter glasses and lenticular LCDs do not create parallax (only holograms do that). And the sensory confusion between the way your binocular vision is centered on an artificial point off in the distance, but your eyes themselves are focused on your computer screen a couple of feet away is the cause of the headaches you get from them.

Have you every tried LCD shutter glasses with the stereoscopic effect on 100% ? You will only last a few minutes before you get a bad headache or you start vomitting.

g0at
12-30-02, 04:39 AM
to sum it up, its nice when you see it for the first time, but after a couple days, the glasses will just be taking up space in your "spare parts" bin =\