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brucesinner
01-02-04, 08:06 AM
Hi ppl,

When will Nvidia be updating drivers to give support to the new GLSL (Shading Language) ?

Thnxs,
Bruce

The Baron
01-02-04, 10:25 AM
That's a good question. Nobody has any idea whatsoever.

Nutty
01-02-04, 11:26 AM
Probably when Nv40 goes public.

nForceMan
01-02-04, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Nobody has any idea whatsoever.
Do you think so? (popcorn)

The Baron
01-02-04, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by nForceMan
Do you think so? (popcorn)
Yes. Good to see you're still around spreading FUD. But first of all, any word on when FPRT will be enabled in the drivers?

nForceMan
01-02-04, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Yes. Good to see you're still around spreading FUD.
What FUD?
But first of all, any word on when FPRT will be enabled in the drivers?
If it would become DX requirement.

jimbob0i0
01-03-04, 11:10 AM
Baron don't bite....

Given the content of EVERY ONE of his posts over the time he has been a member it is obvious he only craves attention. If we all just ignore him completely maybe he'll get bored and just go away......

In a workplace it would be construed 'constructive dismissal' and subject to a tribunal and hefty fines - but on a private internet forum there's no concern like that :P

Deathlike2
01-03-04, 09:47 PM
For a thought, I wouldn't doubt NVidia implementing this soon (in some new Dets). However, if they fail to have something publicly ready at some point, (say 3 months from now) they would be faultering in their OpenGL support. It would be bad, since NVidia has been good in the OpenGL department (though I'd only disagree with that and Punkbuster).

ATI has this (GLSL) support in the 3.10 Cats (if I recall correctly). It would be a poor excuse for NVidia NOT to get this implemented soon. However, it is a poor excuse not to support features you have in hardware. It might as well "not exist".

Missing features in drivers has NOTHING to do whether or not DX requires it. It's a matter of it getting IMPLEMENTED. You either have it or you don't (this applies to hardware AND drivers).

Edit: more stuff

If say you have a feature that your competitor doesn't and you don't implement it, that's ok for a while.

However, if you both have the same feature, you don't implement it, and your competitor does, that's BAD unless you quickly implement it within a reasonable timespan (less than 2-3 months I'm guessing)

The Baron
01-03-04, 10:19 PM
meh... I'd bet we'll either see GLSL support at the NV40 launch or at the NV40-based Quadro launch.

StealthHawk
01-04-04, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
meh... I'd bet we'll either see GLSL support at the NV40 launch or at the NV40-based Quadro launch.

Ok, I'll bite. Will we see the NV40 or the Quadro NV40 first :D

Deathlike2
01-04-04, 12:27 AM
Well.. hopefully soon. The later NVidia does it, it will be harder to get good developer relations as OpenGL developers would have been working with ATI's hardware to develop programs with GLSL. (It doesn't necessarily have to be with ATI, as I think 3DLabs was the one creating the standard and the first drivers to support them.) Then again, you never know with NVidia.

pino
01-04-04, 05:22 AM
excuse my ignorance, but what is GLSL and why we need it ? :afro:

StealthHawk
01-04-04, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by pino
excuse my ignorance, but what is GLSL and why we need it ? :afro:

It's the OpenGL Shading Language. Akin to what Microsoft's High Level Shading Language is for DX9.

It will make it easier for programmers to write shader programs to make games look pretty :)

MUYA
01-04-04, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
It's the OpenGL Shading Language. Akin to what Microsoft's High Level Shading Language is for DX9.

It will make it easier for programmers to write shader programs to make games look pretty :)

ahh was wondering that too cheers for the explanation.

In essence OpenGlSL will have the same erm..how do u say it levels in terms of things u can do with it as DX9? or more? Or..?

technical things are not my forte ;)

StealthHawk
01-04-04, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by MUYA
ahh was wondering that too cheers for the explanation.

In essence OpenGlSL will have the same erm..how do u say it levels in terms of things u can do with it as DX9? or more? Or..?

technical things are not my forte ;)

I think what it allows is basically the same. There are some differences, more or less semantic AFAIK. GLSL also supports integer support for FX16 whereas DX9 HLSL doesn't have integer datatypes.

The Baron
01-04-04, 09:27 AM
Stealth, we ALWAYS see consumer launches first, followed by Quadro launches what, a month later or so.

gstanford
01-04-04, 05:48 PM
What does it matter which launches first or not? nVidia takes great care to get their Quadro designs correct.

IIRC for NV30 (not NV31,34,35,38) Quadro solutions were available ahead of consumer products (and I'm not 100% on this without digging up archives) but I believe the NV30 launch used Quadro boards.

Anyway GLSL is another example of nVidia developing for OpenGL first, DirectX second. FX16 support is being added because OpenGL requires it. The fact it will be useful in DirectX also is really just a bonus (nVidia could have added it at anytime between NV20 and now to better compete, but didn't).

John Reynolds
01-04-04, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by gstanford
What does it matter which launches first or not? nVidia takes great care to get their Quadro designs correct.

IIRC for NV30 (not NV31,34,35,38) Quadro solutions were available ahead of consumer products (and I'm not 100% on this without digging up archives) but I believe the NV30 launch used Quadro boards.

Anyway GLSL is another example of nVidia developing for OpenGL first, DirectX second. FX16 support is being added because OpenGL requires it. The fact it will be useful in DirectX also is really just a bonus (nVidia could have added it at anytime between NV20 and now to better compete, but didn't).

Umm, I think the # of transistors required to fully support floating point precision levels combined with the fab. processes available when NV20 was being developed were mutually exclusive.

And you keep making it sound like GL support is the absolute top priority for NV when designing their new architectures. Considering how slowly the ARB committee can be in approving new technology into the API, that's a non sequitur assertion IMO (in other words, you're trying to hit a moving target. . .viola, let's go proprietary EXT happy! <g>). Let Carmack retire and id hire a new programmer (or four or five) to replace him and I wouldn't be surprised to see gaming support for OpenGL to go from probably less than 5% of the published games it sees today to around a big, whopping 1%. . .about up there with game development for Apple's Mac's.

Deathlike2
01-04-04, 06:15 PM
For the sake of argument, whoever's got an FX... please run this:

http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/

Download OpenGL extension viewer and see if it is supported. You probably need to use the 52.16 or 53.03 drivers as pre-50 Dets do not have this support (if I recall correctly, this is mainly because those OpenGL extensions didn't get ratified that early).

The Baron
01-04-04, 06:15 PM
no, seriously, the Quadro launches have *all* been after consumer launches. 5900 was in May, I think, and Quadro FX 3000 was in late July. same was true for all Quadro FXes, Quadro 4, etc. al.

gstanford
01-04-04, 06:23 PM
deathlike2:

You won't find the support yet, unless it is in software form. FX16 registers will make an appearance with NV40

NV30 had FX12, FP16, FP32
NV35 had FP16 & FP32 with the FX12 replaced with extra FP16. This was the DX9 fix.

NV40 will be closer to how NV30 did things than NV35, except that the fixed point support has changed precision in line with what OpenGL wants (and allows DX PS1.4 to run without using FP registers).

euan
01-04-04, 07:44 PM
Wasn't there a Quatro FX 2000 that came out around the same time as the Radeon 9700. I'm sure it was used in some benchmarks in an attempt to extrapolate the expected performace of the 5800. Except that Nvidia had poo'd their pants and delayed the chip to design the now famous leafblower?

The Baron
01-04-04, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by euan
Wasn't there a Quatro FX 2000 that came out around the same time as the Radeon 9700. I'm sure it was used in some benchmarks in an attempt to extrapolate the expected performace of the 5800. Except that Nvidia had poo'd their pants and delayed the chip to design the now famous leafblower?
Hmmm... I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Maybe it was, but it certainly wasn't available until after the 5800 Ultra was.

bloodbob
01-05-04, 05:04 AM
The ati GLSL is rather poor :/ put it this way if games were developed on some other card that supported GLSL properly and then you tried it on a ATI it would die ( well if they used a loop it would ).

Mariner
01-05-04, 07:48 AM
:confused:

Well, Humus is developing his demos on ATI hardware using GLSL isn't he? Are you saying that ATI's current GLSL support isn't working properly as yet? (although it's obviously working better than NVidia's current support :p )