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Laser Eyes
01-02-04, 06:29 PM
I hope that people from nVidia actually read this forum because I want them to know why I am switching to ati cards from now on. I have difficulty accepting restrictions placed on what I can watch on my computer by nVidia. In my opinion they have no business stopping me from watching legitimate copies of DVDs that I have purchased with my very hard earned money.

I know that theft of intellectual property is a big problem and I wish I could do something about it. For myself I can say that I never make or use illegal copies of computer programs or movies or any other kind of intellectual property. In fact I'm the only person I know who has a registered copy of Winzip. Perhaps it's because I know that I am an honest person that I don't like it when anyone assumes the worst and treats me like a thief.

The first time that I tried to play a DVD on my computer and I got the message that I couldn't play the disc while the TV out function was working I didn't understand why. I came here to this forum seeking help as I had always found the people here very helpful and computer savvy. I did find the reason and I didn't like it.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10232

I was using the nVidia detonator drivers and it was impossible to turn off the TV out function. Later I switched to the Asus drivers and then I did have the option to turn off TV out. For some reason I haven't had the problem recently using the latest detonator drivers but I fear being prevented from watching DVDs on my computer at any time.

nVidia, who are you to tell me that I can't watch a legitimate copy of a DVD that I have bought on my computer? I would like you to explain why you have tried to stop me doing this completely legal activity. Frankly I don't expect anyone from nVidia to actually respond on this forum so I will content myself by saying bye-bye nVidia, hello ATI.

digitalwanderer
01-02-04, 06:34 PM
You do of course realize that ATi has macrovision protection on all their cards that are newer than the rage128 too, right?

The Baron
01-02-04, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
You do of course realize that ATi has macrovision protection on all their cards that are newer than the rage128 too, right?
Macrovision is the spawn of Satan, but they would sue the hell out of anyone who ignored Macrovision "protection."

Welcome to the golden age of DRM.

digitalwanderer
01-02-04, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Macrovision is the spawn of Satan, but they would sue the hell out of anyone who ignored Macrovision "protection."
Yeah, but that and my Rage Fury (non-Pro) are an excellent reason for keeping a 98se install. :cool:

Hellbinder
01-02-04, 06:48 PM
aaah...

You guys clearly need to be introduced to the wonderful world of Media Player Classic and all the free codecs in support thereof... ;) Like AC3 etc..

I dont even have a DVD player program installed on my computer anymore. I just use Media player Classic for everything.

(Including Divx and Quicktime)

Morrow
01-02-04, 06:59 PM
sorry Laser Eyes, nvidia is not the one to blame for this.

But just use the little nice tool called TVTool (http://tvtool.info/index_e.htm) and you will be able to watch your DVD on your TV. Unfortunately the program is not freeware.

noko
01-02-04, 08:05 PM
TVTool is a great program, I use it on my GF3 and it is updated frequently with new features, bug fixes, support for the newer cards etc.. You pay once but it is well worth it since the updates to registered owners are free.

Laser Eyes
01-02-04, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
You do of course realize that ATi has macrovision protection on all their cards that are newer than the rage128 too, right? No, I didn't know that. So you mean that I can't watch Macrovision protected DVD movies on my computer whether I have an ATI card or an nVidia card?

Laser Eyes
01-02-04, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
Macrovision is the spawn of Satan, but they would sue the hell out of anyone who ignored Macrovision "protection."

Welcome to the golden age of DRM. I'm not talking about ignoring Macrovision protection. From what was said on the earlier thread that I linked to above it seems that nVidia have taken positive action in cooperation with Macrovision to stop even the viewing of DVD movies on a computer. This is the crux of my complaint. When Macrovision approached nVidia and asked them to incorporate Macrovision protection into their drivers they should have told Macrovision to get lost because they were trying to stop perfectly legal activity. I'm not trying to make a copy of the DVD or watch the movies on my TV. All I want to do is watch the movie on my computer.

Kev1
01-02-04, 08:43 PM
With GF3 using the 45.23 WHQL drivers just fine. Drivers above 40.72 and below 45.23 seem to be ones with the problem. Not sure if any others do.

There is another program you can use called DVDIdle, which disables all the region stuff and lets you play any DVD. It has one time cost too but its not a lot.

There are ways around every roadblock if you look enough.

Laser Eyes
01-02-04, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
sorry Laser Eyes, nvidia is not the one to blame for this. nVidia is to blame for this. They incorporated Macrovision protection into their drivers to prevent playing a DVD unless the TV out is disabled. They had no business stopping me (or anyone else) from the completely legal activity of watching DVDs on a computer. The very least they could have done was to provide the option in the reference drivers to disable TV out on any card that has it but they didn't do that.

The Baron
01-02-04, 09:14 PM
This is odd, because I have never had a lick of trouble watching DVDs on my computer using PowerDVD XP or PowerDVD 5 or whatever the hell has come with every other piece of hardware I've bought in the last six months.

I think the Soltek 5200 card I reviewed even came with PowerDVD. But anyway, back to the Macrovision point--Macrovision probably threatened legal action against NVIDIA under the DMCA if NVIDIA did not prevent DVDs with Macrovision analog copy protection (like all VHS tapes) from being viewed when TV-out was enabled because the Macrovision stuff is a copyright-protection technology, and NVIDIA would then be circumventing it by not ignoring it (yes, I know it is insane, but it's probably quite accurate).

If you're looking for someone to scream at, scream at Macrovision.

Mr.Clawz950
01-02-04, 11:24 PM
Gee, I can watch DVDs just fine on this machine. Wonder why ?? :rolleyes:

I am currently watching one of my all time favorite movies.

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue"

Can you guess which one??

digitalwanderer
01-02-04, 11:57 PM
Airplane? :lol:

EMunEeE
01-03-04, 12:35 AM
Does macrovision actually work? When I had my Radeon 8500 and was running my 19" TV using the S-Video -> RCA dongle...I was able to display the DVD on the television using theater mode in the ATI drivers. Can you record that video stream going to the TV on VCR or some other recording medium. If so, macrovision does not work that well. :)

Another note, I never ever pirate movies...I buy DVDs, especially Bad Boys II :D

netviper13
01-03-04, 12:47 AM
By any chance did you have a GeForce3 made by PNY? Because my GF3 Ti200 from PNY refused to play any DVDs on my computer because of TV Out Macrovision issues even though I never used the TV Out.

The problem is in nVidia's drivers. See there was a bug in Direct X 8 (old I know) that allowed circumvention of Macrovision in video cards with non-Macrovision-certified TV Out chips. PNY cards had those chips. So instead of disabling TV-Out, nVidia decided to completely disable any DVD playback on all cards meeting those criteria, even after DX9 was released and fixed the bug. The only possible solution to the problem without ripping the DVD to my hard disk and watching it was to revert back to 30.82 or older drivers. My new ATI card has none of those issues.

I think Baron was correct that it was Macrovision's fault, but it still upsets me that my $180 piece of hardware was rendered useless for a simple action like DVD playback because of a bug over which I had no control and that I never intended to exploit.

Mr.Clawz950
01-03-04, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Airplane? :lol:

BINGO!

"Captain, how soon can you land?"
"I can't tell."
"You can tell me, I'm a doctor."
"NO, I mean I'm just not sure."
"Well, can't you take a guess?"
"Well, not for another 2 hours."
"You can't take a guess for another 2 hours?"
"No, no, no. I mean we can't land for another 2 hours
fog has closed down everything this side of the
mountains. We've got to get through to Chicago."

cthellis
01-03-04, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Clawz950
BINGO!

Surely you can't be serious?

vampireuk
01-03-04, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by cthellis
Surely you can't be serious?

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

MUYA
01-03-04, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by vampireuk
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

Vamps matey, u have been watching Airplane & Police Squad again haven''t u? just to get that line?
;)

D.K.Tronics
01-03-04, 07:53 AM
Airplane, lol.

Anyone in the UK see Airplane 2, over xmas ?
Top stuff. :)

Mind you, You can't beat good old Red Dwarf, for quotes. Although, I fear some of them may be a "British", thing.

Morrow
01-03-04, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
nVidia is to blame for this. They incorporated Macrovision protection into their drivers to prevent playing a DVD unless the TV out is disabled. They had no business stopping me (or anyone else) from the completely legal activity of watching DVDs on a computer. The very least they could have done was to provide the option in the reference drivers to disable TV out on any card that has it but they didn't do that.

You don't seem to understand the situation, nvidia had no other choice than to implement Macrovision in their drivers or to be more precise, it was illegal for them to bypass Macrovision protection!

GlowStick
01-03-04, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by $E Mun$
Does macrovision actually work? When I had my Radeon 8500 and was running my 19" TV using the S-Video -> RCA dongle...I was able to display the DVD on the television using theater mode in the ATI drivers. Can you record that video stream going to the TV on VCR or some other recording medium. If so, macrovision does not work that well. :)

Another note, I never ever pirate movies...I buy DVDs, especially Bad Boys II :D Well your NOT saposta beable to record it, what will happen is the image becomes very very very dark.

Because Macrovision is required by LAW to be installed in every VHS and DVD player.

It has some sort of invisible code that VHS recorders pick up and then the macrovision chip kicks in and makes the image unwatchable.

The problem they had is the TV out woudlnt put the invisible code (or watermark what ever they used) so you could freely record onto VHS from your computer.

the MPAA had a fit.

|JuiceZ|
01-03-04, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
aaah...

You guys clearly need to be introduced to the wonderful world of Media Player Classic and all the free codecs in support thereof... ;) Like AC3 etc..

I dont even have a DVD player program installed on my computer anymore. I just use Media player Classic for everything.

(Including Divx and Quicktime)

I second that, mpc and other open source apps will play a very important role in the future of software dev.

euan
01-03-04, 12:54 PM
VHS players have no knowledge of Macrovision. What macrovisions does is insert crap in the spaces between frames of video, and also change the period of the gap. This makes it impossible for the Video recorder to syncronise with the start of new frames, hence making recording "messy"m usually with the picture rolling around. Tv's aren't effected by the deliberate interference.