Immigration...

[Riptide]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/06/elec04.prez.bush.immigration/index.html

Just something to discuss if anyone cares to.

[UDawg]

I am not sure about this plan. What do we do? Do we kick em all out and have jobs nobody wants but immigrants or do we set up a work program. We basically have a work program no but they are undocumented.

I know the republican base will go nuts over this but I personally am not sure. I see a use for this plan but still am worried.

[digitalwanderer]

It's a pretty clear case of bloody pandering the latino vote to me. :bleh:

[intercede007]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
It's a pretty clear case of bloody pandering the latino vote to me. :bleh:

Do you have a better solution to the issue of illegal immigration that will satisfy foreign policy concerns?

[Riptide]

I think I like what O'Reilley suggested some months back on his radio show. Grant amnesty to the ones that are here now and document them but only do that if you can get better control of the border so more illegals can't just keep on coming.

[PsychoSy]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
It's a pretty clear case of bloody pandering the latino vote to me. :bleh:

Yeah, first they slam on all those "dirty hippie Liberals" in California citing "security concerns" for letting illegals get driver's licenses (which in turn is allow them to purchase all the guns they want from Cabellas, obtain a voter's registration, or *GASP* get a job at a Wal-Mart or McDonald's) only now to turn around say, "Well, since you're here and have a job ... we're aren't going to send you back to Mexico!"

I can just see the Bush re-election ads right now ....

<voiceover mode>

In the age of terrorism, the liberal Democrats allowed you illegal aliens to flock into this country and obtain driver's licenses. Clearly they don't have American interests in mind. But, since you folks now have a job ... and a voter's registration ... the Republicans in the House and Senate along with President George W. Bush has promised (*) to turn a blind eye to the law and will make sure your illegal ass doesn't get deported back to Mexico right away!!"

(*) Promise void at 12:00AM Midnight, November 4th, 2004...

:angel:

[Riptide]

I agree that bush has been weak on this issue.

[bknblk]

More importantly, how are we gonna keep those unbearable Canadians from flocking here? What, with those silly flapping heads and all....

[Riptide]

Not so sure about this any more... I heard today about something called "family reunification" which would allow anyone that was granted amnesty to basically bring in their entire family as well. Seems like a little to much reward for bad behavior (ie, entering illegally in the first place) for me to swallow.

[bknblk]

I am all for family reunification; so long as it takes place in the country of origin.

[Riptide]

ROFLMAO :jumping:

[UDawg]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
It's a pretty clear case of bloody pandering the latino vote to me. :bleh:

This wont buy Bush any latino votes. It is not that clear. You don't know the latino communitee if you think this. Rove is a smart guy. I can't believe he would actually think this would buy votes. There is something else going on here.

I am not discounting the vote buying angle but I don't think it is that simple.

[netviper13]

It may very well backfire if it doesn't stir the latino vote. Surely a centrist policy such as this will upset the neocons who will make up a large portion of the Bush voting crowd.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by netviper13
It may very well backfire if it doesn't stir the latino vote. Surely a centrist policy such as this will upset the neocons who will make up a large portion of the Bush voting crowd.

You are so right.

[Riptide]

Yeah, it just might upset them enough to play into the hands of the other side and cause a lot of neocons to stay home when it comes time to vote.

[UDawg]

I have made up my mind on this issue. I support this plan. I also think that this plan is not politically smart. It will hurt Bush and he knows that. This is not a attempt to buy latino votes. The Republican base will not like this and it will not bring more latinos on board. I believe it is the right thing to do.

The reality is we cannot go door to door and round up all the illegal immigrants. The ones we do round up and deport are back at their jobs before the deportation truck has returned to its home state.

Let them pay a fee for coming here illegally and then let them work. They are going to come any way.

[Sazar]

could it possibly have ANYTHING to do with his sister-in-law ?

:)

the problem with many of bush's plans is not how much valour he has in bringing them to the table but rather the lack of thought in many of the ideas...

this idea is not a bad one however and I am with you in the sense that it might actually help in one way or another...

the problem however in my mind is this is basically the creation of a lesser 'caste' so to speak... it may not turn out to be one but there could well be a level of legitimate illegals v/s all-out illegals...

will have to see how this plays out and if it gets the support needed by the public...

for all its possible failings I am for it or a form of it...

[UDawg]

Yeah that's it, he did it because of his sister-in-law. :rolleyes: I hope you are joking.

I also notice you tend to say thinks like "I agree with the idea but Bush's version is lacking in thought" That is a week kneed way of saying "yeah I agree but Bush is advancing this idea so I kind sorta don't like it".

We have done nothing for the longest time. Bush is trying to help the situation. Those of you that think this is a political stunt are politically blind and have no very limited knowledge of politics.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by UDawg
Yeah that's it, he did it because of his sister-in-law. :rolleyes: I hope you are joking.

I also notice you tend to say thinks like "I agree with the idea but Bush's version is lacking in thought" That is a week kneed way of saying "yeah I agree but Bush is advancing this idea so I kind sorta don't like it".

We have done nothing for the longest time. Bush is trying to help the situation. Those of you that think this is a political stunt are politically blind and have no very limited knowledge of politics.

there in no weak-kneed anything... I just don't agree with the way he is promoting the idea and I have said as much and yes the sister-in-law thing was a joke...

I don't really care what you think about my response m8 specially if you are gonna try and bring down my point to a level it was not intended to be...

I have maintained for a long time that immigrants are a big part of the american economy and I have not changed that stance though I see some others have softened up a little...

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Sazar
there in no weak-kneed anything... I just don't agree with the way he is promoting the idea and I have said as much and yes the sister-in-law thing was a joke...

I don't really care what you think about my response m8 specially if you are gonna try and bring down my point to a level it was not intended to be...

I have maintained for a long time that immigrants are a big part of the american economy and I have not changed that stance though I see some others have softened up a little...

Yes you do care, other wise you would not have responded. ;) :p (that was a joke. ;) )

Who care how he promotes is? I care if it works.

[Riptide]

Originally posted by UDawg
We have done nothing for the longest time. Bush is trying to help the situation. Those of you that think this is a political stunt are politically blind and have no very limited knowledge of politics.

I heard something today about back in the Reagan term(s) they did an amnesty and then promised no more after that. Then look what happened.

I am against this because it is rewarding people who don't respect our laws. If you come here illegally, you should be deported. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I am willing to pay higher prices for grapes, apples, and oranges if that's what it takes to remove the reliance on illegal labor. Secondly, I'm also willing to pay the extra taxes it would take to round up the ones that are here and send them packing back where they came from.

Does that sound heartless? Tough. :p

[The Baron]

I am against this because it is rewarding people who don't respect our laws. If you come here illegally, you should be deported. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I am willing to pay higher prices for grapes, apples, and oranges if that's what it takes to remove the reliance on illegal labor. Secondly, I'm also willing to pay the extra taxes it would take to round up the ones that are here and send them packing back where they came from.
Exactly. There is no reason for this. It IS a political stunt. "Hmmmm... big business gets complaints about outsourcing... so let's bring the outsourcing in!" What the hell kind of mentality is this? The US border is porous. We know that. We've always known that. But now, it's the War On Terrorism that somehow makes this okay? Yeaaaah... I'm sure a terrorist who is planning a nuclear strike will helpfully register as an illegal worker just so we can learn his whereabouts. There is a legal way to enter the US, but now, Bush is saying, "It's OK if you ignore our laws! WE LOVE YOU ANYWAY, HISPANIC POPULATION WHO HELPFULLY WILL REMIND OTHER HISPANICS TO VOTE FOR ME, GEORGE W BUSH, IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION!"

[UDawg]

Originally posted by Riptide
I heard something today about back in the Reagan term(s) they did an amnesty and then promised no more after that. Then look what happened.

I am against this because it is rewarding people who don't respect our laws. If you come here illegally, you should be deported. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I am willing to pay higher prices for grapes, apples, and oranges if that's what it takes to remove the reliance on illegal labor. Secondly, I'm also willing to pay the extra taxes it would take to round up the ones that are here and send them packing back where they came from.

Does that sound heartless? Tough. :p

So let me get this straight. Because the US would not enforce its own laws you now want to round up 8 million people and ship them back across the borer? Then what? Build a wall? Come on Rip get real. That isn't going to happen.

This is not an amnesty program. They do pay a fine, it should be more but they they do pay a fine for coming here illegally.

I don't want people coming here illegally but they do and they do the jobs we Americans won't do.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by The Baron
Exactly. There is no reason for this. It IS a political stunt. "Hmmmm... big business gets complaints about outsourcing... so let's bring the outsourcing in!" What the hell kind of mentality is this? The US border is porous. We know that. We've always known that. But now, it's the War On Terrorism that somehow makes this okay? Yeaaaah... I'm sure a terrorist who is planning a nuclear strike will helpfully register as an illegal worker just so we can learn his whereabouts. There is a legal way to enter the US, but now, Bush is saying, "It's OK if you ignore our laws! WE LOVE YOU ANYWAY, HISPANIC POPULATION WHO HELPFULLY WILL REMIND OTHER HISPANICS TO VOTE FOR ME, GEORGE W BUSH, IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION!"

This is not a political stun Baron. No way. Here is what you are saying. 10 months before the general election Bush comes up with a immigratin plan to devide his base. That is insane. NO presidential candidate will sacrifice his base to get swing voter or democratice voters in this case. What you are saying is insane. Carl Rove is not that stupid. In fact I am willing to be Carl Rove told Bush not to do this. This is political stupidity. I believe Bush believes this is the best thing to do given the situation at hand. I concur with the administration.

[Riptide]

Originally posted by UDawg
So let me get this straight. Because the US would not enforce its own laws you now want to round up 8 million people and ship them back across the borer? Then what? Build a wall? Come on Rip get real. That isn't going to happen.

This is not an amnesty program. They do pay a fine, it should be more but they they do pay a fine for coming here illegally.

I don't want people coming here illegally but they do and they do the jobs we Americans won't do.
It's about time we start enforcing our laws. This problem has got out of hand IMO and the answer is to put our foot down and punish people that broke the law - deport them. I'm willing to pay the tax increase to fix this problem permanently. And in light of our situation with the war on terrorism it makes infinitely more sense to tighten things up, not encourage more illegals to come over which is what this plan will probably do. I don't care if they DO build a wall: hell build a nice replica of the great wall of china if that is what it takes.

The punishment should be deportation, not a fine. I will pay more for my apples, thanks. Perhaps then we won't have to rely on illegal labor and we can get serious about our border(s).

BTW: post 2k. :dance: