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dbd
09-28-02, 04:31 PM
I'm thinking about getting a MSI Geforece 4 ti4200 128MB very soon. But I am worried that the price may drop loads when the next gen nvidia cards come out. Is this likely, and when is it likely to happer?

Thanks

DBD

thcdru2k
09-28-02, 06:18 PM
the price will drop, but nothing major, for example, geforce 2 didn't really get much cheaper for awhile, and even now they are around 50-70. geforce2mx are 40. as long as those cards around, i don't see the ti4200 being less than 80-90.

StealthHawk
09-28-02, 07:25 PM
yeah, the price for the gf4 ti4200 is already quite low. i don't forsee NV30 changing that. the 4600 is the card that should be dropping in price

Mono
09-28-02, 11:56 PM
Just some speculation, but I think the Ti4200 may well drop to sub 100 dollar range when 9500 comes out. Assuming the 9500 delivers of course.

StealthHawk
09-29-02, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Mono
Just some speculation, but I think the Ti4200 may well drop to sub 100 dollar range when 9500 comes out. Assuming the 9500 delivers of course.

i have a feeling it won't perform that much better than the GF4, but we'll see.

Uttar
09-29-02, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk


i have a feeling it won't perform that much better than the GF4, but we'll see.

I've got that exact same feeling :) Beside the fact it'll probably have better memory than the GF4 Ti4200.

IMO, the Radeon 9500 will be a competitor to the Geforce 4 Ti 4600 with AGP8X. And it's highly likely it'll release about at the same time, too.


Uttar

PCarr78
09-29-02, 03:23 AM
What exactly are the 9500 specs?

Uttar
09-29-02, 03:47 AM
R300 core and features ( thus DX9 support )
128 bit memory bus.
4 pipelines instead of 8
Slower memory ( ? )

So, beside DX9 support, the 9500 really doesn't have much more than the GF4. The GF4 also has 4 pipelines and a 128 bit memory bus.

Considering the highest increase compared to the GF4 with DX8 games was 2.5x, i really fail to see how this could be much faster than a GF4... Maybe a few %, but more? Nah


Uttar

StealthHawk
09-29-02, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by [Corporal Dan]
What exactly are the 9500 specs?

the new rumors are that there will be a R9500 and R9500Pro. the Pro will have faster clocks and also 8 pipelines, and the regular 9500 will have 4 and slower clocks.

i'm almost certain it would have slower memory, as it is intended to be a midrange card, and they need to drive down prices by not using state of the art memory.

Lezmaka
09-30-02, 08:22 PM
Assuming the 9500 has 4 pipes and 128bit memory bus, we should be able to see how well the improvements they made to hyperz, antialiasing and other changes they made really were, or if it's all due to the insane bandwidth.

LORD-eX-Bu
09-30-02, 11:16 PM
9000 also seems like a nice buy.

Joel776
10-02-02, 12:03 PM
I got a pretty good deal a little more than year 1/2 ago on a GeForce 2 GTS 32MB at $120. I could get the same card today on pricewatch for $35. So don't believe anyone who tells you the price won't drop, barring price-fixing between ATI and NVidia. Are Geforce2's even still being manufactured?

saturnotaku
10-02-02, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Joel776
Are Geforce2's even still being manufactured?

Nope. GeForce3's aren't even being made any more.

jbirney
10-02-02, 02:01 PM
So, beside DX9 support, the 9500 really doesn't have much more than the GF4. The GF4 also has 4 pipelines and a 128 bit memory bus.

Don't forget fast form of AF than the GF4 has so I would expect once you turn on the AF you should see a larger delta.

thcdru2k
10-02-02, 08:02 PM
considering geforce2 is what, 2 years old now? geforce4 is just reaching 1 year. we won't see significant drop because geforce4 is still being made, and its does cost some money to make, you just won't see it that low, $35 for at least a year or two.

Joel776
10-03-02, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
we won't see significant drop because geforce4 is still being made, and its does cost some money to make, you just won't see it that low, $35 for at least a year or two.

I wouldn't say two! If we're sitting around two years from now waiting for the nv60 or nv70 to be announced at Comdex, I expect the geForce4 to be in a museum somewhere. :D

I'm forseeing a 25% drop in geForce 4 prices across the board by mid-November, and down another 15% by January if the nv30 roll-out goes smoothly. $45 by June 2003, that's my guess.

thcdru2k
10-03-02, 07:36 PM
i doubt it, thats what the geforce4mx is for bro.

StealthHawk
10-03-02, 08:06 PM
a voodoo2 12MB is also $35 on pricewatch, so i'm not sure what those prices are worth :p

gf3 ti500 is still over $100, and gf3ti200 is still $70, so i wouldn't count on the gf4 slipping that low for a while longer(like a year).

ricercar
10-26-02, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Joel776
Are Geforce2's even still being manufactured?

Yes, GeForce2 were still being manufactured in September 2002, according to a friend who works at NVIDIA. He says that NVIDIA still manufactures the TNT2 because the demand at that price point is sufficient to make it economical to keep production going!

However, GeForce3 (all flavors) and the GeForce 4 Ti4400 have been discontinued because the margins and demand are too small to be profitable.

While I can understand the GF3 cancellation, I thought GeForce4 Ti4400 was simply Bin-2 NV25. Why would a company stop binning a given GPU at mid-level? Is this a marketing ploy to remain competitive with ATI offerings in the Ti4200 and Ti4600 price ranges?

Discontinuing the Ti4400 would make me think that this is the perfect time to buy a Ti200, because there would be a lot of overclockability in a Bin-3 part without any Bin-2s taken from the supply.

Chalnoth
10-26-02, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Nope. GeForce3's aren't even being made any more.

Well, nVidia is currently still producing TNT2 M64's and GeForce2 MX's. Since there was no low-end GeForce3, they're just too expensive to produce for anybody to care about them now.

Similarly, I'm willing to bet that the GeForce4 Ti 4400 and Ti 4600 will be discontinued very soon, likely around the time of the release of the NV30. The GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8x will be produced for probably another six months or so. Expect the GeForce4 MX's to still be available in new PCs three years from now.

Update:
Oh, didn't see your post, Ricercar. Doesn't really surprise me. The primary reason for the discontinuation of the Ti 4400 would be on the board-maker's side. I imagine too many board makers weren't finding it to be profitable, and so stopped purchasing the chips.

StealthHawk
10-26-02, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by ricercar
Discontinuing the Ti4400 would make me think that this is the perfect time to buy a Ti200, because there would be a lot of overclockability in a Bin-3 part without any Bin-2s taken from the supply.

the Ti4200 actually uses a different PCB layout than the Ti4400 or 4600, which is cheaper to make. but who knows, it may still be profitable to use "Ti4400" chips as Ti4200s.

ricercar
10-26-02, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
the Ti4200 actually uses a different PCB layout than the Ti4400 or 4600

To the best of my knowledge, the Ti4200 GPU is pin-compatible with the Ti4600 GPU, being the same device, but the parts binned for 4200 simply fail QA at the Ti4600 level.

Is there any obvious/quick&dirty benefit to the 4600 reference design over a 4200 reference card? Reviewers sometimes comment about installation problems with longer 4600 boards. What do those extra inches gain that won't be available to a 4200 with faster memory?

thcdru2k
10-26-02, 09:49 AM
don't quote me on this, but i remember manufacturers using ti4600 binned chips for ti4200 just to keep the 4200 supply higher or something. i see alot of 4200 hit 300 easily with just stock cooling.

Chalnoth
10-26-02, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by thcdru2k
don't quote me on this, but i remember manufacturers using ti4600 binned chips for ti4200 just to keep the 4200 supply higher or something. i see alot of 4200 hit 300 easily with just stock cooling.

I think you're remembering that some manufacturers are using Ti 4600 boards for their Ti 4200 products, not chips. Anyway, I'm sure that nVidia is selling lots of Ti 4200's that could have been sold as Ti 4600's.

Is there any obvious/quick&dirty benefit to the 4600 reference design over a 4200 reference card? Reviewers sometimes comment about installation problems with longer 4600 boards. What do those extra inches gain that won't be available to a 4200 with faster memory?

Ti 4600's board design is made for higher frequencies, meaning there is less EMI between various traces, so that the same exact components placed on the Ti 4600 board will clock better than the same components on a Ti 4200 board.

ReDeeMeR
10-26-02, 07:47 PM
Pricewatch is bs, yeah it's shows some very nice prices, but can we all get GF2GTS for that price? nope

Btw, you will never see GfTi4400-4600 under 100, just like Gf3 or Ti500, it just to expensive to produce it's likely they will bump up the memory of Ti 4200 to something like 3.3-2.8 and it'll replace MX line, but still doubtfully.