nv30 problem rumor

[Mod]

I heard NV30 is going to have sex with me ! :D :D

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus


I'm not sure whether to laugh, or to... well, laugh uncontrolably at that statement! :D

i'll toast to that. i'd say that the features of NV30 may well end up being useless. ie, they will be too advanced to be used in DX9 games, and not advanced enough to be able to look as good as DX10.

or we might have Door number 3, which is it will have no more features for all intents and purposes than the R9700

[borntosoul]

bigus you crack me up :) hehe ,,,,2months ago i thought that the nv30 would'nt been to much faster than the 4600 (about %15-%20) but with a whole lot of new features ,after seeing what ati have done with the 9700 im beggining to think it might be a fair bit more than that:)

[borntosoul]

none of the features in the nv30 will be useless ,do you think that nvidia would spend so much time and money to design their card without researching what will be needed in future ?or are you experts going to tell nvidia what they should be doing ?so many 2 cent graphic engineers here !

[Bigus Dickus]

What I found especially humorous in Uttar's post (among the many things that were) was the suggestion that raw speed is useless. :)

[borntosoul]

RAW SPEED gimmie gimmie gimmie :)

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by borntosoul
none of the features in the nv30 will be useless ,do you think that nvidia would spend so much time and money to design their card without researching what will be needed in future ?or are you experts going to tell nvidia what they should be doing ?so many 2 cent graphic engineers here !
why exactly would none of the features of NV30 be useless? we've already seen examples of some things on past nvidia cards that were useless. RT patches for example are completely useless and AFAIK have been completely dropped from drivers.

[Uttar]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
What I found especially humorous in Uttar's post (among the many things that were) was the suggestion that raw speed is useless. :)

Too much raw speed is useless. Maybe i'm insane, but i can't see the difference bectween high res & 2XAA and high res & 4XAA.

Same thing for Aniso. I don't want more than level 4 in most cases.

And really, if you don't use 4XAA and level 8 aniso, err, the R300 is way too fast for today's games.

So, to say this more simply, i'd prefer to buy a slow DX8 card ( Ti200 for example ) than a fast DX7 card ( Mx460 ) if they were the same price.


Uttar

[Bigus Dickus]

Hey, if you can't tell the difference between 2xAA and 4xAA, or between 4x AF or 16x AF... then hey, GF4 MX460 forever!

Personally, my 8500 is lethargic to me. The difference in playability between UT and UT2003 is night and day, which is a shame because UT2003 really doesn't look that much better (and it sure as hell doesn't have better gameplay, but that's another thread) it just runs a lot slower. I can run 16x AF and 2x AA in UT with very smooth framerates (60+ in all cases), but UT2003 I have to lower AF and disable AA, that at only 1024 x 768, and run mediocre world detail, normal texture detail, and low player detail... and it's still too jerky for me to be the accuracy king that I was in UT. In fact, I just finished playing one game of UT after a couple of hours of UT2003, and the difference is simply amazing... UT must be three times faster (framerates) from what it feels like. OK, my rant got a little OT here, but I'm fairly dissapointed by this game I waited so long for. If someone doesn't write an "old skool" mod for it before long, I'll just go back to playing UT.

Back on topic: if you can't tell the difference in IQ using AA and AF at decent resolutions or high resolutions in DX7 games, then that's all fine and well. But what about DX8? We don't even have a real DX8 game yet, and I would be willing to bet that the R9700 isn't overkill when pixel and vertex shaders actually get used heavily. In fact, it would probably struggle in DX8 games a year or two from now at high resolutions, much less with AA on. If anything, we need IHV's to keep pushing performance up and up and up, not only so that we can turn on high detail textures, high resolutions, and high degrees of AA and AF, but also so that advanced features like 128 bit color, fp color, displacement mapping, and pixel shading will be fast enough to actually code games around.

[nutball]

Originally posted by Uttar


Too much raw speed is useless. Maybe i'm insane, but i can't see the difference bectween high res & 2XAA and high res & 4XAA.

Same thing for Aniso. I don't want more than level 4 in most cases.

And really, if you don't use 4XAA and level 8 aniso, err, the R300 is way too fast for today's games.

So, to say this more simply, i'd prefer to buy a slow DX8 card ( Ti200 for example ) than a fast DX7 card ( Mx460 ) if they were the same price.


Well what exactly do you want from NV30 over R300 then? (Apart from dynamic branching, we know that jangles your bells).

I disagree with your assessments of FSAA and AF. Buy yourself a really good LCD, then you'll see the difference between 2x and 4x FSAA, and be wanting more than 8x AF.

I can name some features which R300 doesn't have (and which I'm pretty certain NV30 won't have) which are pretty essential and highly likely to be requirements for OpenGL 2.0.

The "new features" which NV30 shares with R300 will quite likely be useful. Eventually. By definition, because they are the different between DX9 and DX8. One day in the future games the majority of games will be based on DX9 (probably around about NV40/R400 time). Only then will NV30/R300s new features be truly "useful" in my opinion.

Those which it doesn't share, any new little NVIDIA innovations, well only time will tell. Ditto for anything R300 has which NV30 doesn't. All depends on whether they a really useful, or just sound like a good idea,

[borntosoul]

we have come a long way in graphics technology (and a long way to go),its not like in the past when new features was a hit and miss thing ,maybe i was being a bit ****y when i said all features on the nv30 were going to be used but its very unlickely that any will get left out :)

[Uttar]

Originally posted by Bigus Dickus
Hey, if you can't tell the difference between 2xAA and 4xAA, or between 4x AF or 16x AF... then hey, GF4 MX460 forever!

What i said is i couldn't see the diffeence between 1600x1200 2xAA and 1600x1200 4xAA

However, i can certainly see it between 1024x768 2xAA and 1024x768 4xAA

As for AF, sure i can see the difference between 4xAF and 16x AF ( i was comparing 4x to 8x i think ) - but it really isn't worth the performance cost because the difference isn't so big.


Uttar

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by borntosoul
we have come a long way in graphics technology (and a long way to go),its not like in the past when new features was a hit and miss thing ,maybe i was being a bit ****y when i said all features on the nv30 were going to be used but its very unlickely that any will get left out :)

i agree somewhat. but we still have the issue of features being used in the card's lifetime. ie, how useful was T&L on the GeForce1?

how many true DX8 games are out there right now? not many. even UT2003 doesn't have any exclusive shader effects, it just uses shaders to do the same effects(faster?) in some instances. i'm planning to do a system upgrade for Doom 3, and i currently haven't owned or played a single game that requires DX8 hardware or even has special DX8 effects...

i don't remember if it was this thread that i said it in so i'll say it again. assuming NV30 is significantly more flexible, i'm still skeptical as to whether or not it's DX9+ features will even be used in the card's lifetime.