Minimum CPU for NV40?

[Pantherman]

I'm looking to upgrade my system with an NV40 when it's available. I have the popular BFG 5900 non-Ultra in my system now. It runs well, even though I'm not sure my CPU is fully utilizing it. I was wondering if I should even bother getting an NV40 with this system. I can only upgrade my CPU to a P4 2.6GHz which isn't even worth the trouble. Next-generation cards seem to thrive on super-fast CPUs. What does everyone think is the minumum CPU needed for the NV40 to run well? I'm guessing about 3GHz. Thanks for the info.

[RobHague]

Originally posted by Pantherman
I'm looking to upgrade my system with an NV40 when it's available. I have the popular BFG 5900 non-Ultra in my system now. It runs well, even though I'm not sure my CPU is fully utilizing it. I was wondering if I should even bother getting an NV40 with this system. I can only upgrade my CPU to a P4 2.6GHz which isn't even worth the trouble. Next-generation cards seem to thrive on super-fast CPUs. What does everyone think is the minumum CPU needed for the NV40 to run well? I'm guessing about 3GHz. Thanks for the info.

Well graphics cards scale well, but isnt the NV40 going to be PCI EXPRESS? Im assuming there will be an AGP version of it and i would say that the NV40 will give benifits on 2ghz+ systems. Maybe even less.

I know someone with an 1800+ & 5900XT and he gets VERY respectable results.

[Pantherman]

As far as I know, there will be an AGP version of the NV40 and probably PCI Express as well. I don't want to upgrade my computer until PCI Express rolls around. The only problem is that I don't know whether the new boards with PCI Express will also have an AGP 8X slot. The word is that Intel wants to eliminate AGP to quickly move to the PCI Express standard by the end of the year.:cool:

[RobHague]

Originally posted by Pantherman
As far as I know, there will be an AGP version of the NV40 and probably PCI Express as well. I don't want to upgrade my computer until PCI Express rolls around. The only problem is that I don't know whether the new boards with PCI Express will also have an AGP 8X slot. The word is that Intel wants to eliminate AGP to quickly move to the PCI Express standard by the end of the year.:cool:

It'll never happen. I mean look at SATA, its been around a while and there are STILL boards with standard IDE connectors, and still IDE/ATA drives being made. AGP wont die quickly.

[The Baron]

NV40 is most certainly AGP and PCI-Express. it's a native AGP chip, but PCI-Express versions of the board will exist using a bridge chip. this means that:

1. you will not be able to get an NV40 that supports both AGP and PCI-E
2. NV40 will not get any of the Super Advantages from PCI-E (basically, the ability to transmit data from the card to the CPU very quickly, which is one of the only advantages of PCI-E besides the increased bandwidth)
3. no other pre-refresh NV4x cards will be natively PCI-E

so, there you go. that's the lowdown. and no, AGP is dying--Intel will not have AGP slots on its 915 and 925 boards. if Intel doesn't, nobody else is going to within a few months.

as for the CPU issue, you're probably fine if that's a 2.6C.

[Pantherman]

I just read a review of three cards: 5700 Ultra, 5900 SE and 5950 Ultra. The reviewer used a P4 2.4GHz with 533MHz FSB. In 3DMark 2001SE, the 5700 Ultra scored about 12430, the 5900 XT 12800 and the 5950 Ultra 13300. That's not too great a difference in scores so the 2.4GHz CPU must be holding the 5950 Ultra back. In 3DMark 2003 the results are a lot different since that benchmark is GPU limited. Of course, it's how the games play, and I'm guessing that in higher resolutions, the 5950 would be better.

[The Baron]

2k1 is FSB limited. you can get 15,000 easily if you monkey with the FSB, even if you have a GF4.

[MUYA]

Your P4 2.4Ghz will be more than enough I think for a nv40. I mean its the differnce of say getting hypthetically 350 fps in quake3 with a p4 3.0ghz and 310 fps with your p4 2.4ghz:D Games that are GPU limited like Halo maybe will definately get a boost to levels of playabilty. And in any case Gearbox are rumoured to be unleasing a new shader engine which would dramatically boost performance. Also games like Splinter Cell will definates get a major boost if rumours hold true.

No worries dude, i wouldn't worry to much about your cpu speed. :D More than enough methinks ;)

[stefan567]

A 2.4Ghz cpu is fine. I have FX5900 Ultra and I get 15450 in 3dmark01. But remeber 3dmark01 is more a measurement of you whole system and not just the video card. Aqaumark is good to run and compare you CPU score to the GPU score if the same they are about right.

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by The Baron
NV40 is most certainly AGP and PCI-Express. it's a native AGP chip, but PCI-Express versions of the board will exist using a bridge chip. this means that:
Remember that nVidia has only demoed their PCI-Express bridge with low-cost parts. It may well be that this is what the bridge is designed for.

And the NV40 should be out a few months before PCI Express, so not support it natively won't be a big deal. I wouldn't be surprised to see native PCI Express boards very shortly after the launch of PCI Express. I'm not sure that nVidia's board partners would find it useful to connect a PCI Express bridge to a high-end product.

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by Pantherman
I'm looking to upgrade my system with an NV40 when it's available. I have the popular BFG 5900 non-Ultra in my system now. It runs well, even though I'm not sure my CPU is fully utilizing it. I was wondering if I should even bother getting an NV40 with this system. I can only upgrade my CPU to a P4 2.6GHz which isn't even worth the trouble. Next-generation cards seem to thrive on super-fast CPUs. What does everyone think is the minumum CPU needed for the NV40 to run well? I'm guessing about 3GHz. Thanks for the info.
Buying a new video card will not suddenly make your current CPU look bad. The next-generation of video cards will use roughly the same amount of CPU power as the current generation. You'll just be able to run games at higher resolutions and such.

Pay attention to how much CPU power games need when deciding to upgrade your CPU. That is, just go ahead and upgrade your video card until the games you like get just too slow for comfort, and lowering the resolution doesn't help any.

Personally, I tend to buy new CPU's approximately whenever I can double my CPU speed without paying too much. So, I'll probably upgrade next when I can get an Athlon64 4000+ (and I'll probably also wait for a PCI Express motherboard) for a reasonable price.

[The Baron]

And the NV40 should be out a few months before PCI Express, so not support it natively won't be a big deal. I wouldn't be surprised to see native PCI Express boards very shortly after the launch of PCI Express. I'm not sure that nVidia's board partners would find it useful to connect a PCI Express bridge to a high-end product.
Not before NV45, and you know it. No way in hell they're going to respin the NV40 when it will be defunct in a few months. It's not like the NV40 is going to sell ten million chips, so there's no reason for a native PCI-E NV40.

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by The Baron
Not before NV45, and you know it. No way in hell they're going to respin the NV40 when it will be defunct in a few months. It's not like the NV40 is going to sell ten million chips, so there's no reason for a native PCI-E NV40.
The implication was that I think that the NV45 will be out not long after PCI Express.

[PenguinJim]

This thread brings the feeling of pain to my head. Still, a question was asked.

Originally posted by Pantherman
What does everyone think is the minumum CPU needed for the NV40 to run well?
I'd say an Athlon XP or a Pentium 4. Probably ~1.6GHz for an Athlon or ~1.8GHz for a P4.

You also imply that you want us to tell you whether or not to upgrade. Are your games running smoothly enough for you? Do you want to run intense 3D applications in higher resolutions or with higher levels of detail, only to be brought back down by that itching, burning, flaking sensation known as Low Framerate?

I'm with MUYA on this one, for me that 2.4GHz P4 would be fine. I also absolutely guarantee that it will 100% run perfectly with a forthcoming graphics chipset that has not yet been released, and with which I have had no first- or second-hand experience.

Originally posted by RobHague
It'll never happen. I mean look at SATA, its been around a while and there are STILL boards with standard IDE connectors, and still IDE/ATA drives being made. AGP wont die quickly.
Um, there are lots and lots of IDE optical drives out there. People who have just bought a new motherboard probably won't want to pay out again to get a new SATA DVD burner, CD burner and DVD drive. Hell, I don't think SATA optical drives are even coming out en masse until late this summer. No-one's trying to force good old ATA out of the market.

With AGP, it's a different situation, as Intel have made the interesting decision of not including AGP support in their two main upcoming motherboard chipsets. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but AGP will be around for at least another year (the lifespan of the forthcoming graphics chipsets and their 6-month revisions, coincidentally enough). Still, dying in 12 months would constitute a very quick death in my opinion (compared to, for example, the continued existence of parallel ports, ISA slots, and the Dictatorship of America).

[The Baron]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
The implication was that I think that the NV45 will be out not long after PCI Express.
PCI-E is June/July, or so the rumors go. NV45 won't be before September/October.

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by PenguinJim
(compared to, for example, the continued existence of parallel ports, ISA slots, and the Dictatorship of America).
Two things that are essentially gone, and one that never existed? Huh?

[The Baron]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
Two things that are essentially gone, and one that never existed? Huh?
He's probably drunk again. No worries.

[gstanford]

What chipset and memory does your P4 motherboard use? Intel have a bewildering array of available options from dual channel DDR to SDRAM and I'd guess that if your system doesn't seem to be performing quite how you would expect this is probably the cause. P4's live or die by how well they can access the memory sub-system.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by PenguinJim

I'm with MUYA on this one, for me that 2.4GHz P4 would be fine.

Hey I agreee with me too! :D

MUYA

[PenguinJim]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
Two things that are essentially gone, and one that never existed? Huh? Eep! Parallel ports are EVERYWHERE! This year I'm sure that motherboard manufacturers will stop including them entirely (as opposed to the slooooooow decline of the parallel port last year), but the vast majority of motherboards still come with a parallel port on the back. I for one didn't think they'd make it to the end of 2002. At least serial ports are becoming a genuine rarety though :).

As for the Dictatorship of America (I find that quite a snappy way of referring to that place where that guy wasn't voted in but seized power anyway...) it's been, what? Almost three years. How on Earth did someone just take control of a country so easily without anyone raising a finger to stop him? This is not a criticism of Bush or his politics or anything like that, I'm just confused about how a country with such a great emphasis on its forefathers and its idealisms (a government by the people, for the people etc) can simply not care when the guy who loses the elections becomes president anyway. For three years. Three years!!! Ahem. I just thought someone would have done something about this a loooooong time ago :).

And as for ISA slots, they DO exist!!! We just pretend they don't because they took up precious PCI slot space for so many years with their oversized 16-bit legacy (pun intended). OK, it's practically impossible to get a motherboard with an ISA slot now, and has been for about a year, but the fact that they made it through to 2002 from all the way back in 1993 means that, in my opinion, they took quite a long time to die. Especially considering PCI was implemented at the end of 1994. End of rant. You can pretend ISA slots never existed again :).

Originally posted by MUYA
Hey I agreee with me too!

Me too! :D

[Johnmcl7]

Almost every PC in my company uses a parallel port, and they're not ancient PCs either, mainly P4 2.4Bs, they're used for Maya dongles, they're useful as you can move licenses between PCs, I'm sure other companies are in a similar position.

John

[Chalnoth]

Originally posted by PenguinJim
As for the Dictatorship of America (I find that quite a snappy way of referring to that place where that guy wasn't voted in but seized power anyway...) it's been, what? Almost three years. How on Earth did someone just take control of a country so easily without anyone raising a finger to stop him? This is not a criticism of Bush or his politics or anything like that, I'm just confused about how a country with such a great emphasis on its forefathers and its idealisms (a government by the people, for the people etc) can simply not care when the guy who loses the elections becomes president anyway. For three years. Three years!!! Ahem. I just thought someone would have done something about this a loooooong time ago :).
1. He was elected by due process of the law. In the pivotal state, Florida, the votes were recounted multiple times with the same result (and even once a few months after the election was over with). It's really sad that there are some that still claim that Al Gore won.

2. Dictatorship is simply not a term that can properly describe a president of the US. Our governmental structure doesn't allow it (i.e. anything the President does can be overriden by Congress or the Supreme Court...which happens reasonably often, actually).

[PenguinJim]

Originally posted by Chalnoth
2. Dictatorship is simply not a term that can properly describe a president of the US. Our governmental structure doesn't allow it (i.e. anything the President does can be overriden by Congress or the Supreme Court...which happens reasonably often, actually). True dat :). I just thought 'Dictator' was snappy and (very) loosely accurate (single most powerful man in the US, officially. Takes a whole bunch of people to override him).

I'll just not comment on whether or not Bush won, or the regulated media in the US, because I'm no political genius and I didn't mean to start off some debate.

Seriously though, the United Dictatorship of America. How cool would that sound? :cool: