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Skinner
02-06-04, 09:05 AM
Now that the XP AMD 64 bits Os is in trial state, I wonder how it performes?

How is the game performance of the 64 bits drivers from nVidia?

And did someone compare it to the 32bits forceware?

Offcourse we have to wait for UT2004 64 bits for an appels to appels comparison.

I wanted to test it myself, but ATI decided to egnore the Athlon 64.

anzak
02-06-04, 02:35 PM
You can play Unreal Tournament 2003 in 64 bit with a patch that should be released soon if it's not already.

Sazar
02-06-04, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by anzak
You can play Unreal Tournament 2003 in 64 bit with a patch that should be released soon if it's not already.


afaik you will not... I asked the lads the other day when they had the chat for ut2k4... and they said only ut2k4 would have a 64bit edition coming out... ut2k3 would not...

unless someone independently does it...

however you are right tha they have demo'd a 64bit ut2k3... not sure if it was the whole game or just a map or two...

MUYA
02-06-04, 03:31 PM
link;

http://www.thors-hardware.net/new_page/tests/allgem/winxp64bit/winxp64bit_bench.html


on a athlon64 3000+ and nforce3 10 with 5700U

Skinner
02-06-04, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by MUYA
64 Bit Perforrmance (http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ethors%2Dhardware%2Enet%2Fnew% 5Fpage%2Ftests%2Fallgem%2Fwinxp64bit%2Fwinxp64bit% 5Fbench%2Ehtml)

on a athlon64 3000+ and nforce3 10 with 5700U

Thanx, allthough your link don't work, but I could trace the site ;)

His results

3DMark2001SE built 330

32 Bit : 15202 Punkte
64 Bit : 13244 Punkte

3DMark03 patch 340

32 Bit : 3881 Punkte
64 Bit : 2933 Punkte

X2-The Threat Rolling Demo

32 Bit : Overall average framerate: 88.546 fps
64 Bit : Overall average framerate: 115.562 fps

edit, they had rendererrors with X2 and they didn't bench with chipset drivers at all:confused:

Skinner
02-07-04, 06:56 AM
http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1961

Game Performance - Athlon 64 FX51


32-Bit

(Windows XP SP1)

Frames Per Second
64-Bit

(XP64 Preview)

Frames Per Second
% Change

32 to 64-bit

Halo DX9.0b

1024x768
55.0
44.5
-19.1%

X2

1024x768
135.9
130.1
-4.3%

Quake 3

1024x768
482.0
235.0
-51.2 %

Unreal Tournament 2003 - 1024x768

Flyby
291.85
233.52
-19.0%

Unreal Tournament 2003 - 1024x768

Botmatch
112.46
88.21
-21.6%

GunMetal 2 - Bench 2

DX9 1024x768
49.14
30.63
-37.7%

GunMetal 2 - Bench 1

DX9 1024x768
39.93
26.50
-33.6%

Comanche 4

1024x668 4AA
71.24
52.35
-26.5%

Lezmaka
02-07-04, 04:01 PM
Considering CPU tests were just as fast if not faster, it seems pretty obvious that the performance difference is because of immature drivers all around, not just video.

Ady
02-08-04, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Skinner
I wanted to test it myself, but ATI decided to egnore the Athlon 64.


there are beta 64bit ATi drivers included on the winxp 64bit beta download. So they haven't decided to "egnore" it.

Skinner
02-09-04, 09:05 AM
They have no openGl and no controlpanel.

tEd
02-09-04, 05:17 PM
http://www.easy-mod.de/emcontent/content.php?id=173&page=2#4

some benchmarks with a 9700np. It's german , left 32bitOS/32bit drivers,right 64bitOS/64bit drivers from aug03

threedaysdwn
02-09-04, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Ady
there are beta 64bit ATi drivers included on the winxp 64bit beta download. So they haven't decided to "egnore" it.

They have, however, provided minimal support for the OS. The "Radeon" driver only provides very generic VGA support.

ATi has yet to release Catalyst drivers for XP-64 (whereas Nvidia, Matrox, Via, Promise, SiI, Realtek, and others have released official driver packages.)

Skinner
02-09-04, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by tEd
http://www.easy-mod.de/emcontent/content.php?id=173&page=2#4

some benchmarks with a 9700np. It's german , left 32bitOS/32bit drivers,right 64bitOS/64bit drivers from aug03

Those results are a lot better then with the 64 bits forcewaredrivers !

threedaysdwn
02-09-04, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Skinner
Those results are a lot better then with the 64 bits forcewaredrivers !

Guh?

How is 4700 3dmarks better than 5800?

Skinner
02-10-04, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by threedaysdwn
Guh?

How is 4700 3dmarks better than 5800?

I mean the results between 32 and 64 bit.

Sazar
02-10-04, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Skinner
I mean the results between 32 and 64 bit.

what a64 do you run ?

Skinner
02-10-04, 06:04 AM
a 3200+, running on defaultspeed 2 ghz.

freak77power
02-11-04, 11:22 AM
And once the drivers get mature, you will have the same performance like under 32-bit environment. So, 64bit computing are just wortless words on the AMD spec sheet. Don't expect 64bit computing for next 2 years...

Sazar
02-11-04, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by freak77power
And once the drivers get mature, you will have the same performance like under 32-bit environment. So, 64bit computing are just wortless words on the AMD spec sheet. Don't expect 64bit computing for next 2 years...

why do you have such a big issue with x86-64 ?

just coz a64 outperforms 32bit intel cpu's doesn't mean you need to pop a blood vessel over it m8 :)

Skinner
02-11-04, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by freak77power
And once the drivers get mature, you will have the same performance like under 32-bit environment. So, 64bit computing are just wortless words on the AMD spec sheet. Don't expect 64bit computing for next 2 years...

defenetly not as stated many times by Mark Rein and Gabe Newell:


Will Half-Life 2 support Hyper-Threaded CPU's?

Gabe Newell:

Hyper threaded CPUs attempt to extract thread-level parallelism, as opposed to traditional pipelined architectures which attempt to take advantage of instruction level parallelism. Hyper threading can be somewhat unpredictable in terms of the performance impact, as you can, in some cases, run slower.

Implementing and maintaining a "deeply" multi-threaded version of Source would be a pain (i.e. multi-threading the renderer). Implementing a hacky version (e.g. having a discreet physics thread or running the client and server in different threads) is something we may do depending upon how much bandwidth we have before we ship. Right now we don't get nearly as much bang for the buck working on hyper threading as we do on other optimizations. That may change as we run out of things to optimize.

64-bits, in contrast, is a one-time cost and is fairly simple to take advantage of. It's a huge win for tools as it not only gets more work done per instruction, but it also gets us past the current memory limitations, which are a problem for us today on tools.

Distributed computing is harder than hyper threading but it has the potential to increase performance by a huge amount (8X on our tools) as opposed to hyper threading (30%). All of our tools are going to a distributed approach.

So the taxonomy looks like this:

- general algorithmic optimization (general good thing to do)
- DX9 optimization (big gains, long term direction)
- 64-bits (not that hard, solves memory problem as well as performance gains)
- hyper threading (hard initial cost, on-going code maintenance cost, limited unpredictable performance gains, benefits in multiprocessor environments as well)
- distributed computing (hardest to do, biggest potential gains, great for tools, may be great for servers, not sure how it works with clients)


Will Half-Life 2 have any special optimizations for 64-bit processors?


Gabe Newell:

I would expect we would run about 30% faster clock for clock comparing an Athlon running 32-bit code and an Athlon 64 running 64-bit code. Release of the 64-bit client will be gated on MS releasing 64-bit Windows.


make 2 months out of those 2 years.

Morrow
02-11-04, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Skinner
make 2 months out of those 2 years.

Forget those two months, 2004 is NOT the year of 64-bit. This will take longer.

Of course there will be one or the other 64-bit application available at the end of this year if Windows XP 64-bit ships in Q3/Q4 2004 but don't expect to run your 64-bit CPU with a fully working 64-bit OS including all 64-bit drivers, games and applications any time this year. It won't happen...

Maybe HL2, FarCry and UT2004 64-bit executables will be released this year but the shiny 64-bitness will end right there for 2004.

Today the Athlon 64 is "only" a very fast 32-bit CPU and in 2 years it will also be a very fast 64-bit CPU.

Skinner
02-11-04, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
Forget those two months, 2004 is NOT the year of 64-bit. This will take longer.

Of course there will be one or the other 64-bit application available at the end of this year if Windows XP 64-bit ships in Q3/Q4 2004 but don't expect to run your 64-bit CPU with a fully working 64-bit OS including all 64-bit drivers, games and applications any time this year. It won't happen...

Maybe HL2, FarCry and UT2004 64-bit executables will be released this year but the shiny 64-bitness will end right there for 2004.

Today the Athlon 64 is "only" a very fast 32-bit CPU and in 2 years it will also be a very fast 64-bit CPU.

Yeah I know your right, we won't see the mass emerging to 64 bits, but it won't hurt to get fully armed with 64 bits drivers and os either and enjoy the gains in those (few) games and apps, but it will certainly takes longer for the majority of the devs, I know.

Morrow
02-11-04, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Skinner
...but it won't hurt to get fully armed with 64 bits drivers

You won't get fully armed with fast 64-bit drivers anytime this year

Skinner
02-12-04, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by Morrow
You won't get fully armed with fast 64-bit drivers anytime this year

Well I still heave a slight hope though, is shouldn't be that difficult to code towards 64 bits.

RobHague
02-12-04, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Morrow
You won't get fully armed with fast 64-bit drivers anytime this year

*Psst*

AMD64 ARCHITECTURE ACHIEVES SIGNIFICANT MILESTONE-MORE THAN 1,000 OEMS AND SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE DEVELOPERS RESPOND TO CUSTOMER DEMAND FOR AMD64 PROCESSORS

SUNNYVALE, CALIF-FEB. 11, 2004-AMD (NYSE:AMD) announced that more than 1,000 software and hardware developers, OEMs, systems builders and end users have recognized the benefits of AMD64 architecture-an industry-standard approach to 64-bit computing that delivers simultaneous 32-bit and 64-bit performance.

"Innovating for the customer is what AMD envisioned when forging the path to 64-bit computing," said Marty Seyer, vice president and general manager of AMD's Microprocessor Business Unit. "This groundswell of support reflects the growing demand for AMD64 technology, which offers leading-edge 32-bit performance and an easy migration path to 64-bit computing."

"Customer response has been very positive to Microsoft's recently launched Customer Preview Programs for 64-Bit Extended Systems for both Windows Server(r) and Windows XP," said Bob Kelly, general manager, Windows Server Business Group, Microsoft Corp. "AMD's role in developing customer-centric technology that enables increased performance and scalability with 64-bit processing, while at the same time giving customers a smooth transition path from 32- to 64-bit applications, brings investment protection to a new height."

Recent OEMs who have joined or announced additional support for AMD64 products include Acer, eMachines, Fujitsu, Fujitsu Siemens, HP, IBM, NEC-CI and Sun. Some of the key customers choosing AMD64 computing solutions based on either AMD Opteron(tm) or AMD Athlon(tm) 64 processor include AIST, the Central Intelligence Agency, DaimlerChrysler, Ducati Corse, Ferrari, Los Alamos National Labs, the National Security Agency, Rhythm & Hues, Sandia National Labs and Weather.com, among others.

Worldwide OEMs offering systems with AMD64 technology include:

Acer
eMachines
Fujitsu
Fujitsu-Siemens
HP
IBM
NEC-CI
Sun Microsystems

Other OEMs offering systems globally include:

@XI Computer Corp.
AANNEX
ABS Computer Technologies, Inc.
Adamant Computers
Alden & Associates
Alienware
Altex Electronics
AMAX Engineering Corp.
Amulet
Aro-system, Inc.
Aspect
Atec
Angstrom Microsystems
APPRO International, Inc.
Aroma Tech, Inc.
Aspect Computer
Aspen Systems
A.T. Distribution, Inc.
ATRONEX Technologies, Inc.
Audcomp Computer Systems
Bass Computers, Inc.
BCOM Computer Centre
Boldata
Boxx Technologies, Inc.
Canada Computers
CDC
CDI
Computer & Control Solutions, Inc.
Central Computer Systems
ChipCo Computer Distributors
CLT Computer Inc.
Colfax International
Comp-U-Plus
Compusys
Computer Builders Warehouse
Computer Clubhouse
Computer Depot
Computer Factory
Computer Success
Concentric Systems
Cray
CyberPower, Inc.
Daheng
Daiwa Distribution
Dalco
Dataswift
Dawning
Digilink Computers
DIT Computers
Eagle Micro
Eastern Data
EBC Computers
Elco Systems Canada
Elite PC
ELITE Technology Corp.
Emagen
Eprom Inc.
Essential Computer
Eversham
Ewiz
Faith, Inc.
Falcon Northwest
Fortress Systems International
Future Technologies International, Inc.
Grauer MicroBytes
Great Lakes Computers
Hartco
ibuypower.com
ICT
Intrex Inc.
IPS
Lasertech
Leadertech
LEGEND Micro
Linux Networx
Logical Effect
LS Micro
M&A Technology
Macronet Group
Max Group Corp.
McKinnon Micro Distributing
Megaware
Memory Express
Mesh
Micro PC
Micronics
MicroStandard
Microtech Computers, Inc.
Microway, Inc.
Microx
Mighty Micro
Milwaukee PC
Mind Computers
MJC
Monarch Computer
NeoComputers
Nor-Tech
Northern Micro
Nova Computech
Now-Micro
Olidata
PC Club
PC Wholesale
PCs For Everyone
Penguin Computing
Plat'Home
Polywell
Pyrinex
QSOL.COM INC.
Rackable Systems
RackSaver, Inc.
RB Computing
Research Machines
RLM Group
Seanix Technology
Seneca Data
Startech Computer
Synergio
Systemax, Inc.
Think Computer Products
Thompson's Computer Warehouse,Inc.
Time Computers
Tarox
Totally Awesome Computers
Transtec
Tsukumo
Unika
Unitcom
United Micro
Virtual Office Systems
Visual Technology
Vobis
Voodoo PC
Western Scientific
Wintec Industries
ZipZoomFly
Y-International
ZT Group

Global software developers supporting AMD64 technology include:

Absoft
Adapco
Adobe
Altiris
AMI
Ansoft
Ansys
Apache
Atlas
Autodesk
Bentley
Blackdown Java
Cadence
Canopus
CAos
CFX
Computer Associates
Compuware
Conectiva
Covalent
Crytek
Debian
Discreet
DivX
Ensight
Epic
Etnus
Eurosoft
Fedora
Fluent
FreeBSD
Gentoo
GNU
Home Media
IBM
ICEM CFD Engineering
Intervideo
Landmark
LinuxBIOS
Linux Media Arts
Logitech
LSTC
Magic Earth
Magma
MandrakeSoft
Mentor Graphics
Mental Images
Microsoft
MPICTH
MSTI
MySQL
NAG
NetBSD
Network Associates
Networks
Newtek
Novell
OpenBSD
Oracle
Oregon Networks
OSA Technologies
Paradigm
Parasolid
PathScale
PC-Doctor
Perl
PGI
Phoenix Technologies
Pinnacle
Platform Computing
PostgreSQL
PowerQuest Security
Red Flag
Red Hat
RSA
SCALI
SCI
Scyld Beowulf
sendmail
SnapStream Media
Softimage
Solid Edge
SolidWorks
Spatial
Sun
SuSE
Symantec
Synopsis
Thrustmaster
Turbolinux
UGS/PLM
Ulead
Ultra-X
UnitedLinux
Valve
Wai
Wolffram Research
Zeus

Global hardware developers supporting AMD64 technology include:

ABIT Computer Corp.
Acorp
Adaptec
Aechelon
Agere
Ajigo
Albatron
Analog Devices
Aopen
Arima
ASUS
Atheros
ATI Technologies
AVC
BIOSTAR
Broadcom
Canon
CCSI
Chaintech
Coolermaster
Cypress
DFI
Dolphin
Echo
ECS
Epox
Epson
Fairchild
FIC
Foxconn
GIGABYTE Technology
Guillemot
Integrated Circuit Systems
Infinicon
Infineon
Intersil
IReady
Iwill
JNI
Kingston
Leadtek
Linear Technology
LSI Logic
M-Audio
Matrox
Mellanox
Micron
Mitac
Molex Inc.
MSI
Multi-Gen Paradigm
Myricom
Nanya
National Semiconductor
Newisys
NVIDIA
Pine XFX
Proteam
Qlogic
Quadrics
Promise
NetCell
Samsung
Semtech
Shuttle
Silicon Image
SiS Corp.
Soltek
SOYO
S210
Texas Instruments
Thermaltake
Tyan
TYCO
3Ware
3D Labs
VIA Printers
Wistron
XGI
02Micro

There are more than 700 additional software and hardware vendors, OEMs and system builders supporting AMD64 computing.

Morrow
02-12-04, 04:30 PM
I was not talking about PR nor marketing. I was talking about the moment when there are stable and well performing WinXP 64-bit drivers available for all kinds of hardware.

Again, it will not happen this year.