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View Full Version : TV-Out quality of the integrated FX chip? (Inno3D FX5700 in particular)


W.Smithers
02-06-04, 09:31 PM
Hi all,
Unlike previous cards which had tv-out chips from various manufacturers, do all FX cards use the same integrated chip for TV-out?

If so, what's the quality of it? I've recently has to return my Ti4200 which had a conexant chip, which is apparently the highest quality chip according to the maker of TVTool.

I was considering an ATI 9600 for a replacement card until i heard about the various problems such as diagonal lines and a "filter" effect. So now i'm considering an FX card, in particular the Inno3D FX5700 which presumably would use the integrated TV-out chip.

http://www.ivmm.com/inno3d/geforcefx/products_gf_fx_5700.html

In addition, does anyone know if this can connect to a composite/scart TV without any additional components? My ti4200 had the relevant cables, but i've read in reviews for recent videocards that they tend to be SVideo only "out of the box".

Many thanks for your help!
Mark

Cotita
02-06-04, 09:56 PM
I have a bfg asylum 5900 with tv-out

it has a philips 7108 chip for tv-out and it looks great even with composite output.

I looks much better than my old ti3200 with chrontel chip and my ti 4600 with also has a 7108.

Other cards use the nv3x own tv-encoder which is also of excellent quality AFAIK.

W.Smithers
02-06-04, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the info Cotita!

Does anyone happen to know if the Inno3D FX5700 uses an external chip? Does anyone have anymore opinions on the internal chip quality?

goofer456
02-07-04, 02:06 PM
NV30x tv-out is great. Almost as good as the R3xx tv-out.

Enjoy

W.Smithers
02-07-04, 04:50 PM
Thanks goofer456. So you think the integrated chip isn't as good at the Radeon Tv-out chip? Is it sharper/better quality?

I wouln't mind going for a Radeon but all those problems i've heard about TV-out have me worried.

theultimo
02-07-04, 05:01 PM
My Laptop has a NV31M, tv-out is exceptional. 1024x768 supersampled to 800x600, nice and clear :)

quik_2_win
02-07-04, 07:13 PM
I agree- the integrated TV encoder on the nV3x is quite good. Even better is the support in the latest driver versions. You no longer need TV Tool or other 3rd party apps. to 'fine-tune' your TV-out. I'm almost certain that you'll be greeted with an S-video out on the 5700 card, quite rare to see a composite these days. There are adaptors readily availabe should you need one, though.

Here is my nV30 running in clone mode at 1024X768 displayed on my HDTV-
Image (http://www.pbase.com/image/19496183)

NickSpolec
02-07-04, 09:06 PM
Almost as good as the R3xx tv-out

Are you blind? ATI's TV out solution sucks. I can't even get close to the picture qaulity I achieve with a GeForce2 (using TV-Tool). ATI doesn't give a low enough flicker filter setting to choose, plus they lack a signal selection (such as selecting composite or S-Video).

quik_2_win
02-07-04, 10:25 PM
NickSpolec

Maybe off-topic (maybe?), but I see you have the ultra-rare Shuttle AK37 board. I am very interested in getting one of those boards. I know that sounds crazy, but I am serious. If you know of any place that sells them anymore, would you let me know?

W.Smithers
02-07-04, 10:29 PM
Thanks all, so a 5700 it is.

...well, actually give me another day to think about it. ;-)

quik_2_win thanks for the picture, have you seen the quality of a Conexant chip with TVTool to compare? Or how's the quality in comparison to a standalone DVD player?

NickSpolec, which ATI cards have you seen the quality on? I wonder if it's possible for the quality to have gotten worse with more recent cards, because i've always heard that ATI TV-Out was superior.

Thanks!
Mark

W.Smithers
02-07-04, 10:35 PM
By the way quik_2_win, which card is it you have for TV-Out?

The small text in the upper-right of your TV during Unreal looks like it can be read which is a good sign, on some bad quality TV-Out's i've heard things can be so blurry you can't read a thing.

Cotita
02-07-04, 11:44 PM
BTW you should consider a 5900nu or a 5900xt although not all XTs have tv-out.

S-video out on the fx5900 is everybit as good as my sony DVD player. As a matter of fact, I really don't use the sony DVD player anymore.

A final note, forceware drivers finally have overscan controls so you really dont need tv-tool anymore.

W.Smithers
02-07-04, 11:59 PM
Why's that Cotita, do the 5900's have better quality TV-out or are you mentioning it because of the better gaming performance?

quik_2_win
02-08-04, 12:26 AM
Smithers,
Yes, in fact I have a Conexant on my GF3Ti-200 to compare. I would say the TV-out quality is improved with the newer 'integrated' TV-encoder. I can tell no difference between my stand-alone DVD and my S-video out from the card. I am running the infamous FX5800Ultra, so the TV-out from the FX5700 should be of identical quality.

goofer456
02-08-04, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by NickSpolec
Are you blind? ATI's TV out solution sucks. I can't even get close to the picture qaulity I achieve with a GeForce2 (using TV-Tool). ATI doesn't give a low enough flicker filter setting to choose, plus they lack a signal selection (such as selecting composite or S-Video).

Stating that the tv-out of a geforce 2 is better than of the r3xx series says enough:rolleyes:
And you say I am blind?:rofl

Only with the NV3x series the tv-out on big green has risen to (almost) the same level as Big red.

NickSpolec
02-08-04, 07:51 PM
Stating that the tv-out of a geforce 2 is better than of the r3xx series says enough

And you say I am blind?

Only with the NV3x series the tv-out on big green has risen to (almost) the same level as Big red.

I only stat what I see, and what I see is ATI's TV out is subpar to a GeForce 2's.

While the chip on my GeForce 2 (CH700x) isn't as good as, say, the BT868, I can STILL achieve A FAR SUPERIOR TV OUT QUALITY WITH IT OVER MY RADEON 9500

This is in part thanks to TV-Tool.

But the fact still remains --- ATI doesn't give a low enough flicker filter adjustment, as well as a signal selector (some people still use composite).

NickSpolec
02-08-04, 07:55 PM
NickSpolec

Maybe off-topic (maybe?), but I see you have the ultra-rare Shuttle AK37 board. I am very interested in getting one of those boards. I know that sounds crazy, but I am serious. If you know of any place that sells them anymore, would you let me know?

I guess it is rare. I can't find it anywhere. Damn good board too. Great overclocking controls (AGP Voltage, DDR Voltage, Chipset Voltage).

goofer456
02-09-04, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by NickSpolec
I only stat what I see, and what I see is ATI's TV out is subpar to a GeForce 2's.

I had the exact oposite experience when going from a MX2-400 to the R200

While the chip on my GeForce 2 (CH700x) isn't as good as, say, the BT868, I can STILL achieve A FAR SUPERIOR TV OUT QUALITY WITH IT OVER MY RADEON 9500

This is in part thanks to TV-Tool.

After using the tv-out of my R300 for more than 18 months on a frequent basis (at least 4 movies a week) and comparing this with the tv-out (GF4-mx) I can only come to the conclusion that the Ati TV-out is superior. (I do not need capitals and bold to try to draw more attention to my argument).

But the fact still remains --- ATI doesn't give a low enough flicker filter adjustment, as well as a signal selector (some people still use composite).
I use composite (through a wireless solution, which does not support S-Video). My ati card came with a S-Video to composite converter which works great.

And I have never had any problems (subjective though) with Ati's filter adjustment.


That said: When seeing the tv-out quality of the 5900 pro I have to admit it is almost on par with the R300.

NickSpolec
02-12-04, 01:26 AM
After using the tv-out of my R300 for more than 18 months on a frequent basis (at least 4 movies a week) and comparing this with the tv-out (GF4-mx) I can only come to the conclusion that the Ati TV-out is superior. (I do not need capitals and bold to try to draw more attention to my argument).


Well, the GF4-MX had an internal TV chip that really sucked (when compared to various external chips).

I use composite (through a wireless solution, which does not support S-Video). My ati card came with a S-Video to composite converter which works great.

That's not the problem. When you are sending a signal generated for S-Video, then sending it into a composite input, you lose extra quality (we all know S-Video is better then composite, but it's even worse when you you are sending an s-video signal through composite). If ATI would give you the ability to generate the tv-out signal as a native composite signal instead, (even if you are using S-video output), it would be far better.

That said: When seeing the tv-out quality of the 5900 pro I have to admit it is almost on par with the R300.

I haven't seen any GF-FX TV-out, but I'm not talking out of my ass. I specifically bought a GF2MX PCI because I could get a better TV-out picture with it over my 9500.

Now, unless there are different TV-out chips on the R300 series, then I would have a hard time believing the 5900 could only have a quality "almost" on par with the R300 (because from my eyes, the TV-out on the R300 is on par with a TV screen covered in vasiline).

So, if anyone was buying on the basis of TV, I don't think I could ever recommend a R300 (unless ATI adds a whole lot of features like Nvidia offers).

goofer456
02-12-04, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by NickSpolec
Well, the GF4-MX had an internal TV chip that really sucked (when compared to various external chips).

My fault: Meant to say MX2-400 (AGP). Soy the quality should be the same as your MX.

That's not the problem. When you are sending a signal generated for S-Video, then sending it into a composite input, you lose extra quality (we all know S-Video is better then composite, but it's even worse when you you are sending an s-video signal through composite). If ATI would give you the ability to generate the tv-out signal as a native composite signal instead, (even if you are using S-video output), it would be far better.

While I agree with your logic I am experiencing far better quality with the R300 over composite than my former MX2-400. Have not tried straight S-video as I need to move my tv which is about 20kg. :)


I haven't seen any GF-FX TV-out, but I'm not talking out of my ass. I specifically bought a GF2MX PCI because I could get a better TV-out picture with it over my 9500.

I am not suggesting you talk out of your ***, just stating my observations.

Now, unless there are different TV-out chips on the R300 series, then I would have a hard time believing the 5900 could only have a quality "almost" on par with the R300 (because from my eyes, the TV-out on the R300 is on par with a TV screen covered in vasiline).

So, if anyone was buying on the basis of TV, I don't think I could ever recommend a R300 (unless ATI adds a whole lot of features like Nvidia offers).

I have not investigated which integrated chips Ati and NV use. I just state my observations.

It seems it's all in the eye of the beholder:)

W.Smithers
03-31-04, 11:07 PM
Hope you don't mind if i bring this thread back up...

I recently bought a 5700, it's working great and video out quality is on par with the conexant chip. Especially with the "Image Sharpening" slider.

A question though: I have my monitor connected to the standard monitor port on the card and my TV connected through the TV-Out port via composite. With this setup should i be able to run nview clone mode/dual display?

The control panel only lists single display on my setup, and i've heard that if i want dual display i should connect the monitor to the dvi out port with a converter because one DAC controls the analogue monitor/TV-Out and the second DAC controls the DVI port.

If that's correct then i'm on the lookout for a DVI to VGA converter since none came in the box. Has anyone seen them cheap in the UK?

There's no perceivable delay in the conversion from DVI to VGA is there?

Thanks all!
Mark