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DrFx
02-07-04, 04:46 PM
Quote from Jeepers..heres the link http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33740001

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(Puts on flame-retardent suit....)

Before you fire up those flame throwers, however, hear me out.....

If the PC is no longer a viable platform for gaming in the next two years as a result of the next generation of consoles, will it really matter that much?

I mean, let's look at the specs of X-Box 2 that were recently released.....64-bit processing, an ATI 500 video card, etc. Sounds like a hi-tech PC gaming rig to me!

Mighty impressive indeed, and it makes you kind of wonder how PC gaming will longer be able to compete with the likes of such a console.

And really, if the specs do prove true, gaming on the consoles should become on par with what PC gaming would be able to offer, only with many more titles to choose from.

As a long-time PC gamer, I had hoped the industry would never burn out and for consoles take over.

However, when I see the specs of the X-Box 2, it kinda gets me excited about the future of gaming and makes me less worrisome about the potential demise of PC gaming.

The key here, however, will be the price points of the new consoles. If they're around $500, I'd say that's still around the cost of a single component needed for PC gaming - the ever-important video card- and therefore good enough for me to consider buying instead of a new PC rig. No more compatability issues, upgrades, etc. to worry about.

I would love to see the X-Box 2 (or PS3, for that matter) implement a mouse and keyboard. That, for me at least, would give me no reason to use a PC as my gaming machine in the future. The implmentation of AA, IMO, is also a must.

With the specs of the X-Box 2, I really belive the writting is on the wall for PC gaming...it'll still be around, no doubt, but less influential than ever before.

But with the salacious specs of Microsoft's next gaming rig, I say "Who Cares?"

-=DVS=-
02-07-04, 05:28 PM
Problem with console over PC is
1. People prefer to play at the desk with PC monitor keyboard and mouse.
-. Console people play in a sofa or something in front of Big TV set...need good TV ....

2.Console should have Harddriver to be able to download updates , and PC version games can be supported thro modding comunity ,
-. can't mod Console games... without some serious haxing , not all console have hardrive.

3.You can do so mutch more on a PC then console includeing cheating
+. cheating is mutch harder on console thats good IMHO :D

4. PC is more complex/flexible entertainament system
-.Console is single minded game system.

5. Now offcourse Console with Keyboard + Mouse + Harddrive + a bit more flexible games and support not just TV set but regular monitors + DVI LCDs and enough power to run bug free games at higher res then TV , would be a killer :D for games that is.

-. you still have to go back to PC to browse web , send emails , watch pron , ect ect :p

Ultimately its Apples to Oranges comparision untill console can offer everything PC can except bugs and hardware problems.

Malfunction
02-07-04, 05:36 PM
I think the ability to mod games is enough to keep PC Gaming going. Hell, Desert Combat is bigger than BF1942. Mods keep games alive, take away that ability and you have a short lived game, especially if the sequal to a great game ends up being a bust over the original.

There are more reasons, but I like this one the most. :D

Peace,

:afro:

LiquidX
02-07-04, 05:41 PM
Yes it will matter. Gaming on consoles I also believe will be on par with the pc when the next generation of console show up and man I really think M$ has got there communiction another level above anything on pc to an extent. But as good as I think X-Box Live and games on it are they simply cannot touch whats on pc. He he forgets to mention the other parts of what makes PC gaming what it is on the PC...the mods (desert combat, counter striker), The dedicated servers (a dedicated X-Box server? I dont think so and you just try finding a console server 2 A.M in the morning), then there thrust so many have to upgrade and tweak there hardware...all for gaming on a pc...I dont see that dying or not mattering (is that a word?) anytime soon.

But this also should be a wakeup call...if anything I think it will be M$ and the X-Box that brings a fight to the pc. Developers need to take the next step and raise the requirements on there creations so that consoles dont catchup, 2ghz CPU, 512Ram minimum...should be the next stepping stone. Alot of games out now dont push anything in my system to warrant all the money I or most dump in them to be honest.

theultimo
02-07-04, 06:06 PM
Nothing will EVER replace a pc. No console has a wasd type control the FPS's are made for ;)

Vash
02-07-04, 06:21 PM
I think it matters, myself. PC gaming and consoles have always existed on opposite ends of the pendulum - when one is doing well, the other tends to not do so well. But I think that's changing a little.

The PC gaming market is dictated by the lowest common denominator. It used to be that PC games were cheap enough to make that only people with specific hardware could run the games, and that definitely drove people to get the equipment ("I can run Quake at 640x480!" "Awesome!"). And because the market was so hardcore, and because of the people that were pushing out the games (Carmack comes to mind), the hardware soared ahead.

Right now, we're seeing a downturn in hardware output, which means that we're approaching a new level of complexity and the old methods don't work as well - Nvidia and ATI can't just stick some faster RAM, a more efficient core and larger heatsinks in a new card and watch their performance numbers shoot through the roof. Games are growing in complexity faster than the hardware is. There have also been a number of significant letdowns recently - the Geforce FX line certainly didn't turn out as hot as Nvidia wanted, and Half-Life 2's delay put a large crimp in ATI's expected sales.

The next generation of video hardware should be fantastic - Nvidia has some reputation to regain, and ATI wants to grab more of their market share. But something else to consider is the next generation of games; the games that are going to come after Doom 3 are going to try and live up to its standards, and/or will license its technology.

Consoles will almost always look better than PCs, but the mod-ability of PCs and the fun of improving your machine yourself will keep PC gaming around. And since both fields have their own talented people, I don't think that either field will dry up any time soon, if at all.

GlowStick
02-07-04, 07:08 PM
I say i have to flame this guy, what kind of tard bases his whole point on 'rumored xbox 2 specs'

It dosent matter its specs, it will be the same old same old. Just like the Xbox, it will come out around 4 years after the pc counterpart came out, and everyone willl still wow it.

Viral
02-07-04, 07:12 PM
What seems to have turned this person into not caring is simply the specs of the xbox2.... but he seems to be forgetting something.

Xbox 2 is set to launch late 2005 to early 2006, correct? by that time we should be awaiting R600 and enjoying R550. So how does this differ to xbox using NV20 in late 2001 early 2002 and us soon to be enjoying NV25 and awaiting NV30 (in this case we were wrong;p)? but when reflecting, we can see that most likely the situation will be even better. We will most likely have a revision of the R500 by the time xbox2 launches, where as last time we had to wait. All though maybe the R500 will be a fair way off of a Pc R500 and will be more like an R550.. but my guess is that could push the budget.

I dont think xbox2 will be all that much more compared to PC's of the time than the xbox was. It's processor may be a little better (but by then we should be looking at 5GHz/5000+ so whats likely to be in an xbox 2.0GHz 64-bit something, wont end up being all that much better than the 700MHz p3 was for it's time.

Give it 6 months and we will have Pc's that can play games with much higher IQ settings than xbox2.

Whats more, it looks like xbox2 may only be supporting 480i.. this will allow the tech to run top-of-the-line games for years to come, but that is a major drawback from what we can do with PC. I hope they end up going for 720p or something, that would be decent, but i can see why they don't, their tech will struggle to run games at such a res while keeping all the effects +AA +AF after about a year.

That's the major problem.. for a year consoles provide top end tech.. after that PC either plays these games at a much higher res and with more/new effects/Iq settings or Pc games start to look better. After that they are way behind for 3+ years. They just dont refresh often enough.. i can see why, but that is a major benefit of the PC, even if it is an expensive one.

Greg
02-07-04, 08:54 PM
As long as almost 100 million PCs are manufactured each year, PC games won't go away. Basically, where ever there is a CPU, there is the potential to run a game program. Market share, and what the CPU is housed in may change dramatically though. Perhaps in the future, every room in the house will have a wall size screen and there will be one multi-tasking CPU running every program, controlled by every wireless device within the building. Is it a PC, a console, a home entertainment system? Who knows, but it will be cool, it will be expensive, and it will probably involve Microsoft in some way :O

Raptorman
02-07-04, 09:15 PM
1. PC gaming will never die.
2. Consoles will never be as good as playing on the PC.
3. PC gaming is responsible for many of the advancements in technology, not consoles.

Ninja Prime
02-07-04, 09:35 PM
I'm afraid you PC fanboys are in denial. Being one myself I can understand. The technology is advancing so fast that they will be able to create a console that can do the best graphics your eyes can visually discern in a cheap $100-$200 package soon. Maybe not with the X-box2/PS3/Gameshpere generation, but probably the next gen, out in 2010-2011. You won't be able to do better graphics/AI etc. so there will be no point to buying PCs for gaming anymore, as you can get the best of everything on a cheap console. PC gaming won't just die out all of the sudden then, but it will fade away over a few years, and developers will just stop making PC games. I'm sure some PC gaming will remain, but only in the form of user-created games most likely, or a very small niche market.

This is all 7-8 years away though, so don't worry now. ;)

Razor04
02-07-04, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
I'm afraid you PC fanboys are in denial. Being one myself I can understand. The technology is advancing so fast that they will be able to create a console that can do the best graphics your eyes can visually discern in a cheap $100-$200 package soon. Maybe not with the X-box2/PS3/Gameshpere generation, but probably the next gen, out in 2010-2011. You won't be able to do better graphics/AI etc. so there will be no point to buying PCs for gaming anymore, as you can get the best of everything on a cheap console. PC gaming won't just die out all of the sudden then, but it will fade away over a few years, and developers will just stop making PC games. I'm sure some PC gaming will remain, but only in the form of user-created games most likely, or a very small niche market.

This is all 7-8 years away though, so don't worry now. ;)
See that may be true...but something better is always just around the corner. Maybe PC gaming will die, but I have a feeling console gaming will die with it. Something better will show up that will end up replacing both. I am not saying this is going to happen anytime soon but honestly 10-15 years from now I doubt consoles or pc gaming will be around anymore. Something much better will most likely be out.

Edge
02-07-04, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by theultimo
Nothing will EVER replace a pc. No console has a wasd type control the FPS's are made for ;)

Actually Dreamcast had an optional mouse/keyboard addon/adaptor, and quite a few people used it for FPS games (like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament). But the problem with that is that it creates a gap between players that are using different control methods. That has been Microsoft's main reason for not releasing a keyboard/mouse adaptor for the Xbox to use in online games (they did release a USB keyboard adaptor to type messages in PSO, however).

Whats more, it looks like xbox2 may only be supporting 480i.. this will allow the tech to run top-of-the-line games for years to come, but that is a major drawback from what we can do with PC. I hope they end up going for 720p or something, that would be decent, but i can see why they don't, their tech will struggle to run games at such a res while keeping all the effects +AA +AF after about a year.

Really? That's exactly the opposite of what I heard, in fact there was a rumor that Xbox 2 would REQUIRE an HDTV an only support HDTV modes (480p and up), though that rumor was proven false I believe. Here's a quote from Gamespot:

A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies that will clock in with speeds faster than the upcoming R400. The Merc says, "This chip will help the next Xbox to display games with the resolution of high-definition TV."

If this is true, it would take away yet another advantage that the PC has had over consoles. Unfortunatly, they're considering removing the harddrive for the Xbox 2, which I think would be really stupid as the harddrive is used very well in the current Xbox. Also, while PCs have much mroe open-ended mods and addons, one advantage Xbox Live has regarding addons is that you don't have to worry about people not having the extra level or gamemode that you want to play because it's all freely availible and easilly accessable by all Live users. In addition things like voice-chat in every game actually one-ups the PC. Granted, it's more limited in many ways (such as user-made content and player limit), but it's foolish to think that PCs have the advantage in EVERY area.

Razor04
02-07-04, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Edge
Really? That's exactly the opposite of what I heard, in fact there was a rumor that Xbox 2 would REQUIRE an HDTV an only support HDTV modes (480p and up), though that rumor was proven false I believe.
HDTV is 1280x720P or 1920x1080i. Lower resolutions can be called either EDTV or SDTV. Basically fancy names for a TV that can do progressive scan. Those modes only allow DVD or lower resolution though. To roughly translate it is like going from 640x480 to 800x600 to 1280x960 in computer monitor terms. Granted each is a step forward but come on...800x600 blows without AA and 640x480? Who are we kidding...it sucks.

I honestly don't know how people can look at some of the graphics on consoles and say they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Almost all have low textures with tons of jaggies and lots of shiny things to catch your attention. I don't know I just much prefer the PC for what it can do. Consoles have a ways to go before they can take over. Personally I think we will end up with some sort of hybrid that allows a relatively fixed architecture but allows for some configuration changes (such as resolution and all).

jAkUp
02-08-04, 12:54 AM
Well as much as I hate to admit it... this past year has been the worst year I have seen for PCGaming... only a few memorable games. Past years.. there were plenty.

Hopefully next year things pick up with all the new engines and stuff... :drooling:

MUYA
02-08-04, 02:16 AM
five reason why PC Gaming will stick around ;)

1) W key
2) A key
3) S key
4) D key
5) Mouse

hehhe, well for FPS games

Controlling FPS thru gamepads is a bit.....naff!

RTS? no way you can play RTS with gamepad, sure u may add add on keyboard and mouse to consoles but that defeats the purpose of lounging on a sofa for consoles.

Flight Sims :D (hard core i mean) So many functions to map unto gamepads..(hardcore flight sims)

Serious tweakage, on PC platform to get optimum graphics or performance.


Innovative graphics with upcoming GPUs! :D

Sure it costs 500% more than consoles but well i am a hardcore PC gamer, and I am addicted to adding new pieces of PC components. Mixing and matching is also one of the greatest benefits of PC gamers to suit their needs. Easier on the wallet than collecting/modding cars, antiques or whatever.

I got bored with the PS2 which is in the hands of my younger brother by 15 yrs. The graphics quality is not upto par with latest PC hardware. There is also the ability to do other stuff than just play games :D Like browsing and participitating in forums like this one etc :D

ack...i just got up

Viral
02-08-04, 03:14 AM
That's another thing about consoles.. the options you have, very few in games. I mean things like settings.. sure for a sixed hardware platform this is basically the only way it can be done, but i don't always like that. O hope in the future that consoles at least offer an advanced settings menu with warnings that performance will likely be unoptimised. Perhaps we can choose a higher res or enable AA, but turn down the quality of textures (probably not a wise move on consoles;) ) or draw distances or something.

Anyway, i'm going to try and fight to keep PC gaming alive as it what i like most. Consoles have been good to me too, but mainly for either for afew quick 2 player games or SP story/RPG games that just work well with a TV, gamepad and couch. Also i usually prefer racing games on consoles.. i cbf setting up a wheel on my PC and they usually suck in some way so i'd rather play with a gamepad (analogue sticks) anyway. Fighters.. yes, consoles.

So basically i like PC's for FPS, RTS without a doubt (though FPS are becoming better on consoles), and some RPG's. Anything online also at this point in time. Other genres, 3rd person action/adventure seem to be a thing fairly suited to consoles, but work on PC well.. still, i usually buy the console versions as i never get into them on PC and just don't play them as much. Same goes for RPG's, for some i like consoles(usually fairly cinematic ones like FF) just because they work with a TV/couch scenerio, other RPG's i like on PC better.Fighters and racing games are definate console games, but some do work on PC.. i just havent seen enough good ones that aren't hybrids (3rd person action/fighter, 3rd person action/racing/whatever).

MUYA
02-08-04, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Viral
Fighters and racing games are definate console games, but some do work on PC.. i just havent seen enough good ones that aren't hybrids (3rd person action/fighter, 3rd person action/racing/whatever).

I beg to differ ;) I like Racing games more on PC, just because they have better AF capabilities on modern GPUs. PC racing games like f1 challenge 99-02 are much better graphically than the consle version IMHO. I also like the fact that you can use AA as well as AF ;) No texture shimmering/aliasing etc on PCs

The GTR 2002 mod was awesome for f1 2002, looked IMO better than console GT games...like GTA3..more advanced physics etc

D.K.Tronics
02-08-04, 05:48 AM
It's always the console fanboys that bring this tired old topic up, again, again, again, again........................blablabla de blab debla.

We will all be here, argueing the same tired old crap, in a few years time, and guess what ? The PC will still be here. Unless you fanboys think MS are suddenly going to give up on their biggest asset ?
Longhorn, DX10, ATI, NVidia, and all the hardware manifacturers out there, keep it going along nicely.

And I find it hard to believe that a bunch of morons believe a bunch of THE most OTT specs I've ever seen ,all posted by a bunch of spotty Teen Interweb Geeks, with way too time on their hands.

You console fanboys can keep your Fifa 2007's, your "The same as every other Beat 'em up 7", Mario does the dishes, Mario Hoovering Sim, Mario does something again, somewhere, "Oooo look at the pretty driving sim with no gameplay", The list goes on, it's just big men in big suits, making tons of cash off of suckers.

DrFx
02-08-04, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
It's always the console fanboys that bring this tired old topic up, again, again, again, again........................blablabla de blab debla.

We will all be here, argueing the same tired old crap, in a few years time, and guess what ? The PC will still be here. Unless you fanboys think MS are suddenly going to give up on their biggest asset ?
Longhorn, DX10, ATI, NVidia, and all the hardware manifacturers out there, keep it going along nicely.

And I find it hard to believe that a bunch of morons believe a bunch of THE most OTT specs I've ever seen ,all posted by a bunch of spotty Teen Interweb Geeks, with way too time on their hands.

You console fanboys can keep your Fifa 2007's, your "The same as every other Beat 'em up 7", Mario does the dishes, Mario Hoovering Sim, Mario does something again, somewhere, "Oooo look at the pretty driving sim with no gameplay", The list goes on, it's just big men in big suits, making tons of cash off of suckers.

Right buddy ;-)

I just hate the ****ing gay consoles hehe there YOU HAVE It AGAIN!

As everbody knows Pc hardware eat the crappy hardware a console has almost emidiate after it's realesed, of course what to expect for that money the ****ty bastards cost :p

Pc Gaming will never ever die and thats the truth...

Pc high- rez heaven!

vampireuk
02-08-04, 08:57 AM
DrFX can you ever make a post in these console gaming threads without saying its ****ing gay:rolleyes:

Please demonstrate that you have a higher intelectual level than a carrot

DrFx
02-08-04, 09:15 AM
Flibbled by vamp:

Since I am in a good mood today I won't ban you for that, slip up again though and I'll turf your arse out of here.

MUYA
02-08-04, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by DrFx
[BXXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXx [/B]

In case you don't realise it but, Vamps is a staff and forum moderator of nV News. You could do with calming down a bit or Vamps will be forced to fibble you.

MUYA

PenguinJim
02-08-04, 10:50 AM
Teeheehee DrFx is probably dating a horse anyway :D

Kidding, DrFx. I didn't mean to insult you. Honestly, some of my best friends are homophobes.

Anyway, topic at hand: Yes, I do think the Ultra64's release will mean the death of PC gaming.

NAZCA M12
02-08-04, 11:15 AM
Consoles are like yogurts. They have an expiration date, and they will suck after that for a few years till the companies decide to change them. So the new PS3 is gonna have this and that or the Xbox 2 will be a hell of a console? Ask them where are they going to be (in comparison to PC's) after 1-2 years from their original release.