Your take on what happened to the R400

[silence]

Originally posted by MUYA
Thanks Tspoon! OK so it does CMR4 at 100fps and peaks at 120 fps. I wish a little more detail of CMR4 run was given, ie what sort of ps usage, vs usage does CMR3 have, IQsettings etc.

wait and see?:angel:


/me runs for cover

[Hellbinder]

Originally posted by T-Spoon
On this page you can find a preview of CMR4 with benchmarks. It's in German, but everyone can 'read' benchmarks. ;) They used a GF4Ti4200 (@ 1024x768), a Radeon9600Pro and 2 Radeon9700Pro's (all three @ 1280x960).

http://www.ly-racing.de/colinmcraerally4/cmr4preview/grafikpower.html

The benchmarks were mostly in the range of 50-150, but shadows were disabled and no AA and AF were applied. So lookin at these numbers shown, the 100 fps of CMR4 better be with shadows on, in high resolutions, high draw distance and with at least 4xAA & 16xAF... or else it doesn't look quite as impressive to me as it did when I first heard the numbers.
I think you need to think about this a little more. 100 FPS average is *Huge*. Especially with Full effects = ON.

[Hellbinder]

Originally posted by MuFu
Ha, you say that but wait till R420 comes out. I have absolutely no idea what the specs are (neither does anybody else that's speculated publically, AFAIK - including Anandtech) but believe it will be faster than the original R400 would have been in most situations.

Over-overkill, perhaps? Like microwaving a hamster for 30 minutes then running it over with a truck.

MuFu.
When your goal is to be between 2-3X faster in everything you can over an R350 (no not an R300) Then yeah... Its going to be bloody damn fast. ;)

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
When your goal is to be between 2-3X faster in everything you can over an R350 (no not an R300) Then yeah... Its going to be bloody damn fast. ;)

Nice analysis earlier in the thread Hellbinder.

Now, there was a lot of talk before nv30 came out that nv30 was going to stomp Ati, and it didn't happen, now the boot is on the other foot and there is a lot of talk that r420 is going to stomp nv40, is this, in your estimation, likely to happen, or not ?

Is it still likely that they will be pretty close or am I just hoping for the best ? ;)

I'm still hoping for nv40 to pull a big surprise so I can say I told you so, though even I am not confident ! :)

Regards

Andy

[littlebiggins]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Nice analysis earlier in the thread Hellbinder.

Now, there was a lot of talk before nv30 came out that nv30 was going to stomp Ati, and it didn't happen, now the boot is on the other foot and there is a lot of talk that r420 is going to stomp nv40, is this, in your estimation, likely to happen, or not ?

Is it still likely that they will be pretty close or am I just hoping for the best ? ;)

I'm still hoping for nv40 to pull a big surprise so I can say I told you so, though even I am not confident ! :)

Regards

Andy


I personally think the NV40 will be pretty good. I do not believe the R420 will whoop its ass, though I'm sure it will be faster(my speculation). If Nvidia can improve the shading performance, improve the AA quality as well as throw in 16X AF this might be a compelling product. The fastest video card doesn't mean its the best video card. NV will probably have the faster ram between the 2 as they usually do. ATI probably has the raw pixel fill rate, as it has for nearly 2 years. Cheating or not I still think NV's driver team is top notch and ATI's driver team has definetly made improvements. All that said, I'll probably end up with a R420 in my case, unless of course Nvidia shocks the world with something really good. They need to get better AA as I'm unimpressed greatly with their Anti Aliasing quality. But anyway bring on the benches, it will be nice for once to see both company's Flagships go head to head at roughly the same time...

[SnakeEyes]

I hope ATI's anisotropic filtering loses some of the angle dependency (FULL at all angles is preferred, but the less noticable differences across surfaces in games like UT2K3 and 4, etc., the better), as well as using full trilinear filtering across all texture stages..

If they can do that, while maintaining the current AA performance and quality (relative to the chip's overall performance levels, vs. relative to the current batch's performance), AND get the boosts that are rumored, I'm sold. ;)

Of course, if nVidia ends up with something similar, all bets are off, since I'm always a ME first type of buyer. Whichever product gives me the best overall experience will earn my money. :)

[sxotty]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Nice analysis earlier in the thread Hellbinder.

in your estimation, likely to happen, or not ?

Andy

Asking HB whether ATI will beat NV is like asking whether you should breathe if you want to live,,,

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by sxotty
Asking HB whether ATI will beat NV is like asking whether you should breathe if you want to live,,,

true :)

Anyone fancy laying their cards on the table on percentages ?

Me thinks nv40 +15% DX7/ DX8 and r420 +10% DX9

Total guess, probably wildly innacurate, but that's half the fun. Any other guesses ?

Lets have a sweepstake.

Go on everyone !



Regards

Andy

[littlebiggins]

Originally posted by zakelwe
true :)

Anyone fancy laying their cards on the table on percentages ?

Me thinks nv40 +15% DX7/ DX8 and r420 +10% DX9

Total guess, probably wildly innacurate, but that's half the fun. Any other guesses ?

Lets have a sweepstake.

Go on everyone !



Regards

Andy


I was kind of thinking the same thing. NV would be faster in DX8 and older titles and ATI could have a commanding lead in DX9. Personally I'm skeptical after the last round of Nvidia's ability to make DX9 performance faster than ATI.

[lokeshray]

I BET that in all OPENGL based games, NV40 gonna own the R420

[lokeshray]

especially DOOM3,
since DOOM3 gonna use that special hardware shadow unit(or whatever they call it) thats built into all nv35+ cards . DOOM3 gonna use extensions for that,

ATI has no such support for shadows, and as it is, ATI cards have taken a lot of a$$ whipping in doom3 frm the NVIDIA bad boyz

[littlebiggins]

I wouldn't doub it if NV40 turns out to be the Open GL card of choice, especially for DOOM 3.

But I also wouldn't doubt if ATI hands them their arse in Half Life 2. Pure speculation though, we'll have to wait another couple months to know for sure.

[bkswaney]

Originally posted by lokeshray
especially DOOM3,
since DOOM3 gonna use that special hardware shadow unit(or whatever they call it) thats built into all nv35+ cards . DOOM3 gonna use extensions for that,

ATI has no such support for shadows, and as it is, ATI cards have taken a lot of a$$ whipping in doom3 frm the NVIDIA bad boyz

I heard the 420 did have shadow suppport in hardware.
I hope so. :)

[lokeshray]

doom3 is gonna be released in this quareter or the next one....

even if R420 has a hardware shadow unit, its too late now for JOHN CARMACK to include the extensions for the hardware shadow unit in the DOOM3 code.

[bkswaney]

Originally posted by lokeshray
doom3 is gonna be released in this quareter or the next one....

even if R420 has a hardware shadow unit, its too late now for JOHN CARMACK to include the extensions for the hardware shadow unit in the DOOM3 code.

Good point.

If the NV40 lives up to what it suppose to be
I'll be getting one anyway.
So I'll have suport for it. ;)

[randsom]

doom3 is gonna be released in this quareter or the next one....

even if R420 has a hardware shadow unit, its too late now for JOHN CARMACK to include the extensions for the hardware shadow unit in the DOOM3 code.


i would imagine carmack is probably influential enough to have a r420 to play with already.

[tEd]

Originally posted by randsom
doom3 is gonna be released in this quareter or the next one....

even if R420 has a hardware shadow unit, its too late now for JOHN CARMACK to include the extensions for the hardware shadow unit in the DOOM3 code.


i would imagine carmack is probably influential enough to have a r420 to play with already.

for J.C it would be a job of a couple hours to implement this.

I also expect Gslang render path in doom3.