NVIDIA 5900 Ultra, 5900 non-Ultra, or ATI 9800 Pro?

[snowy007]

I need a card that can perform well with recent and fututre games using both aa and af settings. I've narrowed down to 5900fx non ultra, 5900fx ultra and 9800 pro

the cheapest I've found from local stores in canada are:

5900fx ultra $400 - $550 all different brands
5900fx non ultra $300 - $400 all different brands
9800 pro $330 - $400 all different brands


for some reasons nvidia video cards in canada are very expensive compared to ati's

is there a big difference between 5900fx ultra and 5900 non ultra, why is there such a big price difference between the 2.

what should I get a 5900 fx non ultra, 5900 fx ultra or ati 9800 pro? those 3 cards are in my price range.
:)

[ChrisRay]

ATI happens to be located in Canada, Given those price options I'd opt for the Radeon card unless you like Super Sampling and Digital Vibrance.

[snowy007]

thanks ChrisRay for your quick reply,

I do like supersampling but it takes such a big hit when using it that I don't even use it and as for digital vibrance, I loved it when I had an old monitor that doesn't produce good colors, but now that I bought a new monitor I don't need to use digital vibrance anymore.

but I still need more info about ati 9800 pro and nvidia's 5900fx utra and non ultra, is ther anyone that owns both 9800 pro and 5900fx , that can shed some light on both cards,

I don't mind spending a bit more $$ if nvidia card performs faster and better than ati:)

[stncttr908]

Originally posted by snowy007
I don't mind spending a bit more $$ if nvidia card performs faster and better than ati:) Not to post flamebait, but I don't think the extra $$$ for the NVIDIA 5900U would be worth it. The 9800 Pro beats the 5900NU in almost all benchmarks.

[Ady]

It would be worth the extra $30 for the 9800PRO over the 5900NU.

[snowy007]

what about 5900 ultra and 9800 pro? which one is better for me ?

If I have time I'll probably buy a video card tomorrow, please help
:)

[Blacklash]

I have a 9800pro in my other rig that is identical to this one. If top FPS is your concern get it.

Here's may take/opinion on Nvidia/Ati in their current state.

Ati 9800 pro

Pros: Brute strength, the fastest, most efficient, and best looking FSAA going, solid IQ, Ati much improved drivers over past efforts. If you are looking for a card to keep over a year or 2. I think this one is the most future proof, due to it sticking closely to and properly to MS's DX9.

Cons: Drivers seem overall alittle too dark to me,< not a biggie, chaotic AF implementation, alpha blending not as good as nvidia and the largest annoyance to me, micro stutters and pauses. I think this is a driver issue. Before I am trolled I will say that it was installed on a system with winxp and no previous nvidia products. In addition, I removed the base/un needed parts of the nvidia window driver with DC 2. Its all Ati..

Nvidia 5900

Pros: snappy colors, good alpha blending, better calculating texture LOD, more even AF. Lower FPS but smoother FPS, Few driver problems, good price at most places. Has quite a few games tailor made for it, Like most all of bioware's NWN series, Star Wars games, Most all Sony on line entertainment games are geared to work best with Nvidia.

Cons: Slow AA , sub par in comparison to Ati's AA, but the worse thing is you take a much harder FPS hit using AA on the Nvidia product. Limited slower PS. 2.0 Slower FPS in true direct X9 applications. Nvidia puts out cards so fast and so similiar they outdate their own product and make your money much well less spent. Look at the 5700u for example :D

These are opinions formed from product use, consuming alot of articles, both biased/ unbiased, and regularly reading these forums as well as rage3d.

I tend to go with the nvidia product more because even while the FX series is flawed, I find its drivers and smooth fps better than higher fps and much smoother AA.
Again, I like nvidia AF and alpha texture blending.

It really comes down to user pref. They are both good products. Many people think better is the absolute highest FPS possible. For me better is smooth playable frame rates and good IQ. I only find nvidia wanting in the AA area compared to Ati.

If it was me, I would get a BFG 5900 and OC it to ultra levels. I would not get an ultra now, or the un warranted updates, 5950u and 9800xt (Ati)
Both companies want too fecking much for the last two cards.Odds are you are going to want one of the next generation cards from either Ati/Nvidia. I wouldn't plunk down a bunch of cash...

Yes, and BFG has a real no bull pucky life time warranty on their cards...

[ChrisRay]

I disagree with Malficars comments about Nvidias Multi Sample AA, There is no doubt in Apples to Apples Comparisons. Nvidias AA takes a huge performance hit.

But the Pure MUlti Sampling modes are pretty fast, Both have good compression techniques for AA, Its the AF that kills Nvidia in speed.

[snowy007]

thanks Malficar and ChrisRay for your input, I've learned alot, you both have valid points, but I'm more confused now as to which card to buy, because I like both ati and nvidia's pros

I would wait for next gen cards if they'll be coming out next week, but I don't think it's going to happen very soon.

I really liked my g4ti4200 , because I could play games like serious sam using aa and af back then, with fast , smooth framerates , but my g4ti4200 is out dated with newer games, now I can't stand playing games without all the eye candy. I thought buying 5600 fx ultra would make a big difference in new games , but it didn't.

[DoS]

Originally posted by Malficar

Here's may take/opinion on Nvidia/Ati in their current state.

Ati 9800 pro

Pros: Brute strength, the fastest, most efficient, and best looking FSAA going, solid IQ, Ati much improved drivers over past efforts. If you are looking for a card to keep over a year or 2. I think this one is the most future proof, due to it sticking closely to and properly to MS's DX9.

Cons: Drivers seem overall alittle too dark to me,< not a biggie, chaotic AF implementation, alpha texture blending not as good as nvidia and the largest annoyance to me, micro stutters and pauses. I think this is a driver issue. Before I am trolled I will say that it was installed on a system with winxp and no previous nvidia products. In addition, I removed the base/un needed parts of the nvidia window driver with DC 2. Its all Ati..

Nvidia 5900

Pros: snappy colors, good alpha blending, more even AF. Lower FPS but smoother FPS, Few driver problems, good price at most places. Has quite a few games tailor made for it, Like most all of bioware's NWN series, Star Wars games, Most all Sony on line entertainment games are geared to work best with Nvidia.

Cons: Slow AA , sub par in comparison to Ati's AA, but the worse thing is you take a much harder FPS hit using AA on the Nvidia product. Limited slower PS. 2.0 Slower FPS in true direct X9 applications. Nvidia puts out cards so fast and so similiar they outdate their own product and make your money much well less spent. Look at the 5700u for example :D

These are opinions formed from product use, consuming alot of articles, both biased/ unbiased, and regularly reading these forums as well as rage3d.

I tend to go with the nvidia product more because even while the FX series is flawed, I find its drivers and smooth fps better than higher fps and much smoother AA.
Again, I like nvidia AF and alpha texture blending.

It really comes down to user pref. They are both good products. Many people think better is the absolute highest FPS possible. For me better is smooth playable frame rates and good IQ. I only find nvidia wanting in the AA area compared to Ati.

If it was me, I would get a BFG 5900 and OC it to ultra levels. I would not get an ultra now, or the un warranted updates, 5950u and 9800xt (Ati)
Both companies want too fecking much for the last two cards.Odds are you are going to want one of the next generation cards from either Ati/Nvidia. I wouldn't plunk down a bunch of cash...


IMO you are spot on...
Having used both cards (an Ati Radeon 128 Pro and an Fx5900 256 oced to 5950 levels) i have to agree with most of your views. Originally i purchased the 9800 Pro but after a few probs with the cooler and 2 RMAs (one of which was my fault but the store got me a new card !) i now have both cards on two different PCs. First of all, the AA of the ATi card is much better, so much that when i first tried the FX's AA, i thought it wasn't doing any...but then when it comes to aniso the FX wins hand down - even though it too implements an optimised anisotropic filtering method it's much better looking than Ati's excessively angle-dependant technique (any game that has outdoor terrains with slopes etc. shows ATi's method weakeness pretty good). Nvidias brilinear filtering is a bit of an issue but it's barely noticable in games, on the other hand ATi's trilinear in first mip-map stage then bilinear when forcing AF from the control panel is more annoying and clearly noticeable. Also, overall game compatibility is better with Nvidia (but ATi is getting better), lets just say you have a slimmer chance to try a new game/demo and have problems with Nvidia and then have to wait for the next driver release. Another plus for the Nvidia is the widely available brand cards that have very solid and very quite coolers, which allow extreme ocing at almost silent operation (believe it or not this was the reason i decided to go with Nvidia after my ATi experience). Finally, the ATi card is definetely more future-proof, the FX line will have to bet on developers providing mixed-modes in future DX9 titles to offer acceptable performance, and that's no small thing.

edit: It's a difficult decision. i would advise you to wait, in 2 months time the new generation of cards will be out so if you have the money it's the most reasonable thing to do. Between these two cards, i seriously have trouble of picking just one...and i would have to say there are a lot more things into it than most reviews are claiming.

[snowy007]

ok guys, I liked what I hear about both nvidia and ati, I just flipped a coin to decide which card to get tomorrow

heads = 5900nu
tails = 9800 pro

and it landed on head, that's for nvidia 5900 non ultra, I hope I don't regret
it , like I did with 5600 ultra, I'll tell you guys how well the card is in a couple of days,

thanks and peace guys, :)

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by snowy007
ok guys, I liked what I hear about both nvidia and ati, I just flipped a coin to decide which card to get tomorrow

heads = 5900nu
tails = 9800 pro

and it landed on head, that's for nvidia 5900 non ultra, I hope I don't regret
it , like I did with 5600 ultra, I'll tell you guys how well the card is in a couple of days,

thanks and peace guys, :)

*Watches history repeat itself...


You'll enjoy the FX5900nu..until you see it side by side w/ the R9800PRO:(

[mrgoodcheese]

Originally posted by snowy007
ok guys, I liked what I hear about both nvidia and ati, I just flipped a coin to decide which card to get tomorrow

heads = 5900nu
tails = 9800 pro

and it landed on head, that's for nvidia 5900 non ultra, I hope I don't regret
it , like I did with 5600 ultra, I'll tell you guys how well the card is in a couple of days,

thanks and peace guys, :)

Luck is on your side then. You'll enjoy the 5900nu, especially when you OC it. It, viewed side by side with a 9800p will show slight differences, but not massive negative or positive either way that's noticeable.

[Spotch]

Originally posted by mrgoodcheese
Luck is on your side then. You'll enjoy the 5900nu, especially when you OC it. It, viewed side by side with a 9800p will show slight differences, but not massive negative or positive either way that's noticeable.

5900NU doesnt hold a candle to a 9800Pro in any way shape or form... PERIOD. Especially with AA and AF.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-13.html#unreal_tournament_2003

Forget about any DX 9 titles too.

The 5900 Ultra is a proper comparison. But even then its often a mismatch in D3D games with high quality settings.

[dcorban]

You have a GF4 Ti4200 or FX 5600 (doesn't matter which since they are virtually identical in performance)?

In that case, the correct answer is (D) None of the above. Wait for NV40. :)

[goofer456]

Originally posted by dcorban
You have a GF4 Ti4200 or FX 5600 (doesn't matter which since they are virtually identical in performance)?

In that case, the correct answer is (D) None of the above. Wait for NV40. :)

Or even better. Wait for the R42x series;)

[Quitch]

Originally posted by snowy007
ok guys, I liked what I hear about both nvidia and ati, I just flipped a coin to decide which card to get tomorrow

heads = 5900nu
tails = 9800 pro

and it landed on head, that's for nvidia 5900 non ultra, I hope I don't regret
it , like I did with 5600 ultra, I'll tell you guys how well the card is in a couple of days,

thanks and peace guys, :)

Honestly? You've made a huge mistake.

[mrgoodcheese]

Originally posted by Spotch
5900NU doesnt hold a candle to a 9800Pro in any way shape or form... PERIOD. Especially with AA and AF.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-13.html#unreal_tournament_2003

Forget about any DX 9 titles too.

The 5900 Ultra is a proper comparison. But even then its often a mismatch in D3D games with high quality settings.

The difference between your post and my post, is that one of them is based on actual experience using the cards. It's not your post.;)

And please read carefully. Go back and notice how I wrote "when you OC it." A 5900nu clocked higher than a 5950u shines just as bright, and, in certain games, puff out a 9800p's little candle.:p

Anywhere on the net, you can find a review/benchmark in favor of one opinion or the other
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/evga_e-geforce_fx_5900_xt_review/page12.asp

^^ notice the last chart, 1600x1200x32 4aa/8af

[Spotch]

Originally posted by mrgoodcheese
The difference between your post and my post, is that one of them is based on actual experience using the cards. It's not your post.;)

And please read carefully. Go back and notice how I wrote "when you OC it." A 5900nu clocked higher than a 5950u shines just as bright, and, in certain games, puff out a 9800p's little candle.:p

Anywhere on the net, you can find a review/benchmark in favor of one opinion or the other
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/evga_e-geforce_fx_5900_xt_review/page12.asp

^^ notice the last chart, 1600x1200x32 4aa/8af

What makes you think my post wasn't based on experience? Puff out a little candle? OoooooK :p

You know now that you mention it my 50 below ultra liquid helium cooled 1Ghz/600MhzDDR 9800NP just blows away any card out there! :rolleyes:

He never asked about overclocking ability, which is not a consideration for most anyhow. Plus I have another chart which probably reflects performance at a resolution that he will probably be more likely to use.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-15.html

[Kev1]

Best card I have ever owned :thumbsup:

[DoS]

As mrgoodcheese said "Anywhere on the net, you can find a review in favor of one opinion or the other" and to tell you the truth i am seriously dissapointed by most review sites in omitting (i don't care why) facts. IMO there are a lot of things that can be improved in both camps, and although at first you think the 9800 pro is a much better card the match is a lot closer that most of you think. Obviously the 9800 pro is the more "balanced" and solution but there are still hiccups...
IMO the best articles comapring features and IQ out there are done by 3DCenter. All the others are insgnificant to my eyes...

[Spotch]

Originally posted by Kev1
Best card I have ever owned :thumbsup:

Dont get me wrong... I think the 5900NU is a great card. The point I am trying to make is that it is very difficult to argue that it is a better choice than a 9800 pro if price is not a consideration.

[nIghtorius]

Originally posted by Spotch
What makes you think my post wasn't based on experience? Puff out a little candle? OoooooK :p

You know now that you mention it my 50 below ultra liquid helium cooled 1Ghz/600MhzDDR 9800NP just blows away any card out there! :rolleyes:

He never asked about overclocking ability, which is not a consideration for most anyhow. Plus I have another chart which probably reflects performance at a resolution that he will probably be more likely to use.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-15.html

while I clicked on your link you are forgetting the last two graphs.. the one with 8x AF and the latter with 4xAA 8xAF!!.. which the 5900nu gets creamed.

but....

with nowadays games which make the use of AA and even AF impossible because of some post-effect shader effects. things are hard to figure out. but if you like to play quake III, UT, UW engine based games the R9800P is the simply the best choice..

[fivefeet8]

Originally posted by nIghtorius

with nowadays games which make the use of AA and even AF impossible because of some post-effect shader effects. things are hard to figure out.

Which games exactly that AF is impossible? AA I've seen, but there hasn't been a game in which AF wasn't possible with my Fx5900. I have however, heard from a few people with Radeons that were having trouble getting AF to work in Halo and Crazy Taxi 3 PC.

[nForceMan]

Originally posted by snowy007

heads = 5900nu
tails = 9800 pro

and it landed on head, that's for nvidia 5900 non ultra, I hope I don't regret
itExcellent choice! :thumbsup: (The Force was with your coin! :D)
Don't worry, you won't regret it. I guarantee that! ;)

Regarding overclocking, take a look at this (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1955).

Also worth seeing:
Halo (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1955&p=24)
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1955&p=25)
Unreal Tournament 2003 (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1955&p=26)