Nvidia will "OWN" Ati?

[russo121]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14290


"...Lastly there is word on the NV40 R420 front. Neither card was shown, but several people who would be familiar with both have said Nvidia is going to come back very strong soon. The word 'own' was bandied about, as in Nvidia will own ATI..."


I think that's PR stuff again and again and again.... :cool:

[sxotty]

If it did that would be pretty funny since everyone has pretty much written them off for now myself included.

Of course I haven't written them off like HB, but I do feel that I don't have any evidence that they have learned from their mistake and will make something that is better. My idea was parity would be good.

[Evildeus]

Well, perhaps because R420 isn't supporting PS 3.0 according to 3DCenter :o :confused:
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/2004/02-22_a.php

Or discussion over here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10401&start=0

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33743797

[MUYA]

I know this the hardware rumour mill but fllights of fancy is not just gonna cut it. IMHO it will be close but only time will tell if one thing "owns" the other?

[Evildeus]

Well i don't think so also. I would think that both part are more or less equal. But well, we never know, don't we?

Btw, on the PS 3.0 support, mufu said:
The pixel pipelines are based on R300. There are functional additions, but they are insufficient to fully support shader model 3.0.
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33743797

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by Evildeus
Well, perhaps because R420 isn't supporting PS 3.0 according to 3DCenter :o :confused:
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/2004/02-22_a.php

Or discussion over here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10401&start=0

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33743797

PS 3.0 support doesn't make cards faster . But yes a bit dissapointing.

[Clay]

Heh, every time I hear hype of a yet to be released card "owning" any other card I find myself recalling similar claims. One of the more recent examples was the Matrox Parhelia. It was touted as a GeForce 4 killer before it ever came out. The link below is to a good article exporing this.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/videocards/article.php/3211_1376851__1

So, it's all fun to speculate about but one never knows for sure until the have the card(s) in hand.

[Malfunction]

Ahh... though this is from two strong companies in the 3D Gaming performance arena versus a mild competitor like Matrox was.

One will be "pOWNEd!" hehe... :D

That damn word is funny, sorry.. I had to use it once in my life..lol. :p

Peace,

:afro:

[Nutty]

Thats a big wheel or a tiny (but tasty) woman Malfunction! :eek:

[Ninja Prime]

Lets see, no games currently being made even have PS3.0 shaders yet, so it's gonna be a year or more before we see them... So, why does PS3.0 support matter again? ;)

When you can play a PS3.0 game for the first time, you probably can buy a faster card than than NV40 and R420 for less than $150, IMO.

[Malfunction]

Originally posted by Ninja Prime
Lets see, no games currently being made even have PS3.0 shaders yet, so it's gonna be a year or more before we see them... So, why does PS3.0 support matter again? ;)

When you can play a PS3.0 game for the first time, you probably can buy a faster card than than NV40 and R420 for less than $150, IMO.

Ya, I remember the same things being said about the R300 having things that the NV25 didn't... lol, but it wasn't a gripe when it was ATi bringing features... it's just because it's NV now :D

Peace,

:afro:

P.S. Nutty, they are both 22's... Muhuhahaha! :thumbsup: :naughty:

[John Reynolds]

Allow me to suggest something. One of the main reasons cited for NV30's lackluster performance was because of NVIDIA's prior focus on the X-box. . .the engineering resources required for that sapped them for their next generation PC part. ATI's movement of R400 from late last year to the X-Box/R500 could have been to pre-empt the fact that they are going to have to divert resources to meet the X-Box deadlines, so rather than take the hit later they are doing it now. In other words, release the next part (R420) with a lower specification that's build primarily upon their existing architecture and therefore requires less engineering time and resources to finish, and where the key inflection point isn't going to be architectural abilities (i.e. Shader 3.0 is an interim spec) but a relatively small change to PCI-Express, while ensuring that the technology isn't lacking after the X-Box is released. In short, the hit that NVIDIA took post-X-Box, ATI are trying to minimize by taking it pre-X-box2.

Just a thought.

[littlebiggins]

I'll be very surprised if ATI is "owned" by NV. My speculation is under "heavy" DX9 load ATI will have NV licked as well as under max AA and AF. I can see NV winning some pre DX9 titles. Hopefully though NV comes on strong and surprises us all. I'm not gonna hold my breath though as it was just a short year ago we all saw benches of the NV30. :rolleyes:

[Clay]

Consider the source of all this "own" talk. It would be very interesting to see how accurate the Inq has been over time. I'd be surprised if they are even close to the 80/20 rule. ;)

[retsam]

Consider the source of all this "own" talk. It would be very interesting to see how accurate the Inq has been over time. I'd be surprised if they are even close to the 80/20 rule.


um hasnt that rule been revised to the 20/80 rule



rets:afro2:

[Clay]

Whatever man, it's all relative. :afro:

[c4c]

My completely baseless opinion is we probably won't see much "owning" this time around. No doubt Nvidia will try to regain some face, but will it be through actual hardware ability, benchmark hacks, or both?

My biggest hope is that Ati and Nv stop screwing around with these BS hacks on aniso filtering. :screwy: I would like to upgrade this generation, but I will probably give it a miss if they dont.

All angles, all trilinear, all the time, please :p

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Ninja Prime
Lets see, no games currently being made even have PS3.0 shaders yet, so it's gonna be a year or more before we see them... So, why does PS3.0 support matter again? ;)
The part I bolded should have been PS2.0 shaders, no?

Very disappointing news, but we still don't know what kind of impact shader model 3.0 will have on games. It will have a lot less impact than it could have had without ATI's support.

The only way NVIDIA will "own" ATI is with superior PS2.0 speed, better FSAA, and better AF than the ATI part. PS3.0/VS3.0 will likely take a back seat the same way that PS1.4 did, and PS2.0 ended up. The name of the game is always delayed software. Big titles such as HL2 were supposed to come out and be the DX9 killer apps, but they were all pushed into 2004.

Shader model 3.0 support will play a role if everything else is equal with NV40 and R420.

[CapsLock]

I'm not an expert for sure, but considering the success Ati have had with .13, and that they get the advantage of that jump, but not NV, and considering that 160 mill trans is a 45% increase over the r360, and 175 mill trans is only a 29% increase from nv35, and considering Ati have obviously got a huge edge in efficiency/design currently (110 mill trans mopping 135 mill trans), and that the core clock speeds are going to be much closer, my guess as to who is lkely to get owned here isn't exactly a difficult one to make.

Was that a run on sentence? (..makes sign to ward off old english teacher ghosts...)

So in point form:

-Ati moving to .13 (low k?)

-Ati increasing trans count significantly more percent wise, 10 mill more actual

-Ati design efficiency currently much much better (lower clock, lower trans count, higher performance)

-core speeds much closer percent wise, Ati increasing core clock more percent wise also (380 > 500 = 31.5%, 500 > 600maybe = 20%)

-edit: also it occurs to me that if nv40 is going to waste trans on creating PS 3.0 compliancy when we've barely got a few 2.0 games, and Ati don't, this also works in Ati's favour performance wise if not feature wise.

Frankly I don't know why so many knowledgable people are thinking that its going to be a close race.
In terms of pure speculation, based on these facts it SEEMS like a no brainer. I guess we'll see. :confused:

CapsLock

[Nv40]

well its to early to say.. but not everything is performance .if the R420 doesnt support Ps3.0/Vs3.0. Nvidia will literally own ATi -at the least- in the marketing department . but also will have many oportunities to steal the show all around feature/performance wise...they just need to fix the Ps2.0 performance at acceptable speed and release a couple a good looking new Naked DAwns :D demos with enhanced shaders and graphics ,with big labels saying [only possible in Ps3.0 hardware]. :) and that alone will make Many people turn heads and really consider the jump to the Nvidia side this round.(and this time a wrapper would not be enough to make those demos compatible in other hardware). :) not many people buy a video card every 6months,so most gamers will likely want to have the more future proof card. even if the performance in PS2.0 in the Nv40 is nothing more than ok ,but not as good as the R420. the IQ diferences with AA should be similar at the least for NVidia,since there are many information on the net that they have worked heavily in the IQ there too .

PS3.0 would not be important until games start using it,but you can be sure that NVidia will manage ,developers in their program to code special features and effects just for the NV4X line. at the least just like the entensive ATI list of games using DX8.1 in radeon 8500 (True-form..etc) were the extra funtionality was supported in many games. enhanced graphics like more advanced displacement mapping ,and more advanced HDR effects (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=99674) comes to mind when it comes to more advanced DX9 hardware . i wonder what will happen with the FP32 precision that was rumored the R420 has just because it is the minimun required by Ps3.0 specs .

[CapsLock]

I'm gonna laugh pretty hard if NV fans start raving about PS 3.0 when 6 months ago the argument was who cares about dx9 performance when there aren't any dx9 games. But just wait 2 years for those PS 3.0 games! Then we'll see whose really faster! :rolleyes: This is going to be a lotta fun to watch.

...drums fingers impatiently...

Caps

[CapsLock]

Actually, I'll be plenty impressed with NV if they can even beat thier 500 Mhz core clock with 40 million more transistors. Thats a BIG VPU.

PC/Toaster Oven anyone? :p

Caps

[Viral]

This is why i usually wait for the revisions. I get to see what the architecture is like, and then still enjoy top-end performance with the higher clock speeds the revisions bring with them. This time though, NV45/R450 look a bit too far away. Still, i wont be buying right away. When i can afford a new PCI-E system is when i will do it, so native PCI-E card is a must.

And the speculation.. uh, wait and see.:p

[Docwiz]

Well I switched over from an Nvidia Geforce 3 to a Radeon 9800 Pro and was going to buy ATI's R420, but if this is true then I will end up going back to Nvidia to pay for a nicer part.

***IF*** ATI does this then they are stupid. I want to program with PS 3.0 HLSL code and if this is true its just unforgivable. You might as well not even adhear to any DX 9 specs at all.

I am not a fanboy of either company, but if this is true then both companies have made some really stupid redneck mistakes that just don't make any logical sense.

My goodness, whats next? Oh we don't need no stink'n T&L!

[bkswaney]

Originally posted by CapsLock
I'm gonna laugh pretty hard if NV fans start raving about PS 3.0 when 6 months ago the argument was who cares about dx9 performance when there aren't any dx9 games. But just wait 2 years for those PS 3.0 games! Then we'll see whose really faster! :rolleyes: This is going to be a lotta fun to watch.

...drums fingers impatiently...

Caps

But in 2 years the videocards out now will
be so out of date u will be lucky to get 5fps.