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DSC
02-24-04, 09:44 AM
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1976&p=5

NVIDIA's NV5x line is slated to be native PCI Express, but they also plan on continuing AGP support through that line by flipping their bridge chip upside down. In fact, we were told that if demand persists into the future, it is very possible that NVIDIA will bridge its NV6x GPUs back to AGP as well.

AGP LIVES! :p

|JuiceZ|
02-24-04, 09:59 AM
Read this a while back. This is very good news. I still don't see the need for the massive amount of extra bandwidth that PC Express adds over AGP until a couple yrs down the road. Glad to hear Nvidia & AMD thinking about the little guys when it comes to upgrading and compatibility. Not everyone can afford to keep up w/ the latest/greatest.

MUYA
02-24-04, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by |JuiceZ|
Glad to hear Nvidia & AMD thinking about the little guys when it comes to upgrading and compatibility. Not everyone can afford to keep up w/ the latest/greatest.

Seconded Dude, it hate when you are forced to overhaul due to new tech.

russo121
02-24-04, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by |JuiceZ|
... Not everyone can afford to keep up w/ the latest/greatest.

Soo... why would you upgrade to nv50?

|JuiceZ|
02-24-04, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by russo121
Soo... why would you upgrade to nv50?

My post was made in general and should be taken as such.

EMunEeE
02-24-04, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by russo121
Soo... why would you upgrade to nv50?

Has a great point! If you can afford and NV50 then go ahead and get a PCIe mobo.

XP-1800
02-24-04, 01:50 PM
Has a great point! If you can afford and NV50 then go ahead and get a PCIe mobo.

True.....bit there a probably some like me who has blown all his dosh in buying a FX5900 and it is compatible with my mobo etc. I get the benefits of a modern card (over my GF3 Ti200) but don't have to buy a new board to support it....:)

ringu61
02-24-04, 04:13 PM
May AGP force be with you

PCI Express sux :p :D

schuey74
02-24-04, 05:45 PM
PCI-Express won't be of any interest until someone launches a mobo w/ two slots and at least one of the Graphics companies supports it. Otherwise it's just wasted bandwidth.

Spotch
02-24-04, 07:06 PM
Personally I dont see any difference in the consumers position. One company offers a native PCI-E card and an AGP counterpart. The other company is offering and AGP card with or without a PCI-E bridge.

Neither is forcing anything on you.

(except maybe the guy forcing you to buy yet another AGP card with an extra chip duct taped onto it so it will work with the new PCI-E mobos.)

:lame:

Actually if it was really duct taped on that would make it a better solution! You can do the add-on PCI-E capability aproach.

:udawg:

These new smilies have increased my quality of life....

Beam Me Up Scottie!

:scatter:

RobHague
02-24-04, 08:14 PM
Yeah i see PCI Express as being a bit pre-mature, but i guess it has to start somewhere. ;) Be interesting to see the benchmarks of PCIe vs AGP. Has any graphics chip even come close to utilizing the bandwidth of AGP8x yet? Let alone anything else?? Will N40? R4xx? :confused: Interesting thought because until they do push the envelope beyond AGP8x i dont see any performance advantages at all. Which makes PCIe an expensive 'toy' for now. ;)

Spotch
02-24-04, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by RobHague
Yeah i see PCI Express as being a bit pre-mature, but i guess it has to start somewhere. ;) Be interesting to see the benchmarks of PCIe vs AGP. Has any graphics chip even come close to utilizing the bandwidth of AGP8x yet? Let alone anything else?? Will N40? R4xx? :confused: Interesting thought because until they do push the envelope beyond AGP8x i dont see any performance advantages at all. Which makes PCIe an expensive 'toy' for now. ;)

Could be that the advantage at first will be the two way capability not so much the increased maximum bandwidth. Remember how that really helped our full duplex modems ? ;)

Razor04
02-24-04, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by RobHague
Yeah i see PCI Express as being a bit pre-mature, but i guess it has to start somewhere. ;) Be interesting to see the benchmarks of PCIe vs AGP. Has any graphics chip even come close to utilizing the bandwidth of AGP8x yet? Let alone anything else?? Will N40? R4xx? :confused: Interesting thought because until they do push the envelope beyond AGP8x i dont see any performance advantages at all. Which makes PCIe an expensive 'toy' for now. ;)
It isn't so much it being pre-mature as being such a major leap. I mean come on...how long has PCI been around...or ISA a few years back. The whole point of a new bus with a giant increase in bandwidth is to allow for changes over time. This bus isn't going to be upgraded every couple years like with AGP. It is meant to be such a big leap forward that it will hold its own for a while until something better is needed. Would you rather they release a full speed bus now...or release something slower that is upgraded every other year? Personally I want a one time upgrade and not have to deal with another one for some time.

RobHague
02-25-04, 08:55 AM
I didn't mean pre-mature as in its debut on boards, i just meant premature in the fact that now IHV's are making AGP -> PCIe bridges and PCIe Graphics Chips... that offer no performance advantages yet are being sold as "twice the bandwidth". I think it just means people will be forced to upgrade to a board with PCIe sooner than they need too...

However this news does disprove that so it means people can wait till PCIe gives a worth while advantage to them rather than it being forced upon them by the marketing bandwaggon.

Gator
02-25-04, 09:03 AM
I haven't been keeping track of PCI-E info

What needs to be asked is how much more bandwidth does PCI-E provide over AGP8x ? I mean as it is, the difference between AGP4x and 8x can barely be seen except at very high resolutions, so honestly what is the noticable advantage of PCI-E?

If video cards continue to support AGP8X, I don't see enough reason too switch. It's too much money to ask me to switch motherboards and video card at the same time.

Edge
02-25-04, 09:15 AM
Considering the jump from even 2x AGP to 8xAGP is minimal at best, I don't see PCI-E bringing any major performance increases to the table. It might be nice to have for "future-proofing" your PC, but it's totally unneccisary for current or near-future videocards (or maybe any in the far future, as well). It reminds me of the way DVI outputs worked: sure, it was theoreticly better, but in the end the only thing noticable about it was the fact that you needed to buy an adaptor/videocard for monitors that used it.

But I think some of these "technology leaps" are a bit exadurated. We aren't really making progress, we're just slapping bigger requirements (and price tags) onto technology that doesn't really help that much. I'd rather see a bigger push be made for 64-bit processors than for PCI card with better bandwidth, especially since it will render current videocards obsolete (not in performance or features, but in connection type).

|JuiceZ|
02-25-04, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Edge
But I think some of these "technology leaps" are a bit exadurated. We aren't really making progress, we're just slapping bigger requirements (and price tags) onto technology that doesn't really help that much. I'd rather see a bigger push be made for 64-bit processors than for PCI card with better bandwidth, especially since it will render current videocards obsolete (not in performance or features, but in connection type).

(foshiz)

goofjb
02-25-04, 08:31 PM
But I think some of these "technology leaps" are a bit exadurated. We aren't really making progress, we're just slapping bigger requirements (and price tags) onto technology that doesn't really help that much. I'd rather see a bigger push be made for 64-bit processors than for PCI card with better bandwidth, especially since it will render current videocards obsolete (not in performance or features, but in connection type).

I agree with Edge. 64-bit should be looked more. Not only is it compatible with everything now, it is also the next step into the future. Even in 32-bit apps the 64-bit processors are performing better! I know that when PCI-x takes off it will be powered by 64-bit processors. In fact I will probably wait until PCI-x does go mainstream before buying a 64-bit processor. But the beauty of 32-bit performance on 64-bit processors means I could even but a nforce3 mobo with AGP slot now and later just buy a new mobo with PCI-x but keep the same processor.

So much technology so little money to use on it :D.