Jen-Hsun Talks NV4x

[goofer456]

Originally posted by MUYA
Now u are just getting cynical there, so you are saying lets not even give NV a chance before their new hardware is out? Lets poo poo it and continue deriding NV? I didn't say we should forget the issues, I am saying, let the NV40 talk for itself and not have to go back to the nv3X arguement all the time. I would have thought NV would have learnt from their mistakes..and it certainly seems that way. We will know in a few agonizing weeks. I suspect it will be closer though this time around.

When somebody lies and cheates at you. fo you just forget and move on? I do not think so!

You probably first want to see some proof that th person will lie and cheat you again before you are inclined to trust that person again.

Point being big green has been lying and cheating on it's customers for almost two years in a row. Difficult to just forget and forgive...

[Evildeus]

So you are still hating Ati with the previous Radeon fiascos? :rolleyes:

[goofer456]

Originally posted by Evildeus
So you are still hating Ati with the previous Radeon fiascos? :rolleyes:

Please read before you hit the reply button

I am not talking about fiascos! I am talking about straight cheats and lies. If you refer to "quack", it has been proven that thi was not a cheat, but a driver problem, which was fixed within a few weeks with similar performance. Vaya cheat

BTW: Nice sig. Bit old I think.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by goofer456
When somebody lies and cheates at you. fo you just forget and move on? I do not think so!

You probably first want to see some proof that th person will lie and cheat you again before you are inclined to trust that person again.

Point being big green has been lying and cheating on it's customers for almost two years in a row. Difficult to just forget and forgive...

Allright are u a customer? If u are then, sorry about it you feel that way. Just talk with your wallet next time. It's awefully easy to do so, as I did it.

So lets return to the topic at hand of, NV40 here. Its gone way off topic and whining about it is not going to resolve anything. Any more non related posts will be deleted or further action maybe taken.

[goofer456]

Originally posted by MUYA
Allright are u a customer?

I was a customer

[vampireuk]

Bitching and whining about the same old issue will not get you anywhere, it will get you into trouble but nothing positive will come from it. We are sick to death of hearing about the same old thing again and again, it has been covered so many times now, move on and look forward to future releases instead of kicking up a fuss about the past.

[DMA]

Originally posted by goofer456
When somebody lies and cheates at you. fo you just forget and move on? I do not think so!



It's all about selling their cards, you know that right? :p
And ATI are angels that never bs us? Hmm, that whole valve/HL-2 scam is ugly to me.
Yes, thats right, scam. ;)

I'm sure ATI knew that all valve had at the time was pretty much just a tech demo (shown at E3 2003) and that the game was more than a year from being ready to ship.

-Hype HL-2 to the max and get all people wired up.
-Have Newell tell the world that ATI cards is the way to go.
-Include a HL-2 voucher with the upcoming XT series.

Now you're all set. Go ahead and sell millions of cards. :D
So easy and very effective.

Sorry for the OT btw, but this "NVIDIA is the devil and ATI is here to save us" bs is getting boring.

Money, money, money baby! :cool:

[goofer456]

Originally posted by DMA
It's all about selling their cards, you know that right? :p
And ATI are angels that never bs us? Hmm, that whole valve/HL-2 scam is ugly to me.
Yes, thats right, scam. ;)

I'm sure ATI knew that all valve had at the time was pretty much just a tech demo (shown at E3 2003) and that the game was more than a year from being ready to ship.

-Hype HL-2 to the max and get all people wired up.
-Have Newell tell the world that ATI cards is the way to go.
-Include a HL-2 voucher with the upcoming XT series.

Now you're all set. Go ahead and sell millions of cards. :D
So easy and very effective.

Sorry for the OT btw, but this "NVIDIA is the devil and ATI is here to save us" bs is getting boring.

Money, money, money baby! :cool:

Though I agree that corporate life is not all flowers and love I see a clear difference in business ethics between the two parties. Next I cannot see the business sense it makes to give a HL-2 voucher while you know the game is more than a year away.

But I will not delve more into this as I will be on the receiving end from Muya and mr Fibble:eek:

[Evildeus]

Well selling products which are not able to work because the drivers suck, i found that more problematic, if you see what i mean ;)

Thanks for the sig. I've got it since the famous article, and well i don't find it old till Nv is still "owned" by ati ;). I find it at least ironic :rolleyes:
Originally posted by goofer456
Please read before you hit the reply button

I am not talking about fiascos! I am talking about straight cheats and lies. If you refer to "quack", it has been proven that thi was not a cheat, but a driver problem, which was fixed within a few weeks with similar performance. Vaya cheat

BTW: Nice sig. Bit old I think.

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by goofer456
Please read before you hit the reply button

I am not talking about fiascos! I am talking about straight cheats and lies. If you refer to "quack", it has been proven that thi was not a cheat, but a driver problem, which was fixed within a few weeks with similar performance. Vaya cheat

BTW: Nice sig. Bit old I think.

they still cheat in 3DMark2001 and they still use their AF which i consider as a cheat too.
Gaining speed at IQ expense.

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by Richthofen
they still cheat in 3DMark2001 and they still use their AF which i consider as a cheat too.
Gaining speed at IQ expense.

Yes and we all count 3dmark2001 and a reliable benchmark these days don't we? It's pretty sad that you can't move on from the past.

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by vampireuk
Yes and we all count 3dmark2001 and a reliable benchmark these days don't we? It's pretty sad that you can't move on from the past.

well i just point at some of those fanatics thinking Nvidia is the onl one who cheats which is simply not true.

[StealthHawk]

You guys seem to be overlooking the fact that brilinear is now being forced in OGL in 56.56.

Why bother doing something like this so late in the game? It's not reassuring and it basically throws the "well, at least there aren't any new things happening" argument out the window.

[Spotch]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
You guys seem to be overlooking the fact that brilinear is now being forced in OGL in 56.56.

Why bother doing something like this so late in the game? It's not reassuring and it basically throws the "well, at least there aren't any new things happening" argument out the window.

Brilinear is gay....


(mag)

You know.... Happy


:angel:

[OWA]

You guys seem to be overlooking the fact that brilinear is now being forced in OGL in 56.56.
Does that mean that whatever you try to force doesn't take and that you always get brilinear no matter what? Like, if you try to use the "force trilinear" option (one of the advanced options in the profiles) it basically doesn't do anything?

[goofer456]

Originally posted by Richthofen
they still cheat in 3DMark2001 and they still use their AF which i consider as a cheat too.
Gaining speed at IQ expense.

3dMark2001 is an obsolete bechie and in almost all IQ comparisons Ati AF does not show inferior quality (only at the famous certain angels). Please do not confuse an optimized AF design with blatant cheating. Brilinear anyone?

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by OWA
Does that mean that whatever you try to force doesn't take and that you always get brilinear no matter what? Like, if you try to use the "force trilinear" option (one of the advanced options in the profiles) it basically doesn't do anything?

You're right that the "force trilinear" option does not force trilinear. However, it does not do nothing either. You can use it to force brilinear in games that only support bilinear, for example. For those cases, it is useful in boosting quality as brilinear looks a whole lot better than bilinear :)

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by goofer456
3dMark2001 is an obsolete bechie and in almost all IQ comparisons Ati AF does not show inferior quality (only at the famous certain angels). Please do not confuse an optimized AF design with blatant cheating. Brilinear anyone?

it definatly does.
The IQ of ATIs AF is definatly worse than the one offered by Nvidia.
If i choose 16x AF on several angles all i get is 2x and you can see it.
Play Nascar or some other games with nice angles. It looks like crap.
To me that is cheating. Cheating not in software but in hardware.
The only reason only few people critized it was that the competition (Nvidia) was not good enough in various departments (AA shader speed and so on.)

But i am pretty confident that when ATI will keep its crappy AF and Nvidia will close the gap in other areas ATI will get the critisism they deserve for that.

[MUYA]

Originally posted by Richthofen
it definatly does.
The IQ of ATIs AF is definatly worse than the one offered by Nvidia.
If i choose 16x AF on several angles all i get is 2x and you can see it.
Play Nascar or some other games with nice angles. It looks like crap.
To me that is cheating. Cheating not in software but in hardware.
The only reason only few people critized it was that the competition (Nvidia) was not good enough in various departments (AA shader speed and so on.)

But i am pretty confident that when ATI will keep its crappy AF and Nvidia will close the gap in other areas ATI will get the critisism they deserve for that.

I think 3D center covered that as a transistor count saving technique on ATI design team. 6 bit something as opposed to 8 bit on the NV range. The AF on both new GPUs from NV and ATI (I hope) are improved from the present generation

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Richthofen
it definatly does.
The IQ of ATIs AF is definatly worse than the one offered by Nvidia.
If i choose 16x AF on several angles all i get is 2x and you can see it.
Play Nascar or some other games with nice angles. It looks like crap.
To me that is cheating. Cheating not in software but in hardware.


It's not cheating because there is no specification saying you have to implement AF a certain way, ergo no cheating.

If you want to bash the implementation because you don't like the results, that is perfectly fine. There are plenty of people who agree with you. But it's not a cheat in any form.

[MUYA]

back to NV40 talk please!