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Vash
03-03-04, 12:33 PM
I've got me a Barton 2500+ that's set for factory defaults that starts at 36° C on cold boot and climbs up till it hits the emergency reboot temp (was set at 65° C) when it's idling in Windows. It just started doing it this morning. I've cleaned out the HSF, cleaned and reapplied the thermal compound. I can't think of anything else to do. Right now it's sitting in the BIOS PC Heath screen, at 57° C, now 58° C.

The fan isn't failing. The only change that I made to my PC was this morning, to actually enable the CPU emergency shutdown feature, as I noticed it was off this morning.

I haven't had any trouble with it before. Should I just shut off the CPU emergency shutdown feature? That doesn't sound like the best idea to me.

Now it's 59° C.

I've got an HSF on my To Buy list, but the one that I've got right now isn't a weakling. It seems to have stabilized at 59° C, but that seems a little high for just idling in the BIOS. I'm using Artic Silver Ceramique, properly applied, but I'm thinking about ordering some Artic Silver 3 and replacing the Ceramique. Anyone have any other ideas?


Here's my system:

Barton 2500+ at factory speeds, 333 FSB
Abit NF7-S 2.0
ATI Radeon 9500 Softmodded to 9700 and OC'd to 324/310.5
1 GB Corsair TwinX DDR400
3DCool.com Tornado 1500 case (4 fans - front, back, 2 blowholes)

Dazz
03-03-04, 12:36 PM
They can with stand up to 85C however idling at almost 60C is quite damn hot i strongly recommend a better cooling solution.

Vash
03-03-04, 12:47 PM
I'm looking into 'em right now. I'm also running some tests with motherboard monitor; I did some more testing with my BIOS heat sensor and am getting some strangeness - I let the machine boot into Windows and did some work there for a while, then rebooted. The temp was at 48° C, but started climbing. Something strange going on when in BIOS mode perhaps?


EDIT: This is damn weird. When taking the reading in Windows using Motherboard monitor, it's idling at 45° C. But when in BIOS, it idles at 59°.

I'm going to do some stress testing and be back. A new HSF sounds like it's needful, but being unemployed kinda puts a damper on purchasing new computer components.

EDIT 2: It shut down again. I'm not sure what the heck's going on. Obviously, the BIOS thinks that the CPU is hotter than Motherboard Monitor, but I don't know which to trust in this situation.

Vash
03-03-04, 01:57 PM
So, after a little bit of testing: Motherboard Monitor and the temp sensor in the BIOS are both accurate. When surfing the Net, I have a CPU temp of 50° C. When I reboot, I get the same reading off of the BIOS readout. Windows XP sends idle commands to the CPU and BIOS doesn't - that's probably where the discrepancy lies.

I've shut off the emergency shutdown thing, and am going to do some quick game tests - I don't want to fry anything.


Hmm... it occurs to me, though, that my HSF is aluminum. A copper one would be a step in the right direction. The one I have my eye on is the ThermalRight SP-97 w/a 92mm Panaflo or a 92mm Vantec Tornado. But that will have to wait for the day when I can put down $70 for it.


A question: what does a shim do, and would it have any effect on the temp of the CPU?

Dazz
03-03-04, 02:51 PM
MBM5 uses you MB's diode to read the CPU temp. Also update your BIOS sometimes they can be way off.

Nutty
03-03-04, 03:31 PM
IIRC temps in the BIOS will be higher, because the BIOS does not have cpu idling code, which the OS does. Isn't this the APIC thing of windows? AFAIK its supposed to keep the cpu cool, when it idles.

But if it continually climbs into the high 50's or 60's when idle, something is wrong.

1) Make sure you haven't got any weird TSA's hogging your cpu time. You running Folding at Home, or United Devices? These keep your cpu on 100% utilization all the time.

2) Whats your case fans like?

3) Are you living in an oven??

4) Do yo have an AMD desirable PSU unit? i.e. one with a fan on the bottom sucking in air from above the psu?

5) Have you accidentially cranked the voltages right up? Check they're on default, and that they're set to 1.65.

With the stock retail HSF, my 2500 would hit 60, when in games often. I thoroughly recomend the Thermaltake Silent Boost tho, quite cheap compared to something like an SLK900, comes with fan, and is exceptionally quiet.. My cpu max's about 50 under load with at 2.2Ghz.

Vash
03-03-04, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Nutty
IIRC temps in the BIOS will be higher, because the BIOS does not have cpu idling code, which the OS does. Isn't this the APIC thing of windows? AFAIK its supposed to keep the cpu cool, when it idles.

But if it continually climbs into the high 50's or 60's when idle, something is wrong.

1) Make sure you haven't got any weird TSA's hogging your cpu time. You running Folding at Home, or United Devices? These keep your cpu on 100% utilization all the time.

Nope. I'm a processes minimalist. If I don't absolutely need it to do what I want to do, I don't install it.


2) Whats your case fans like?


4 80mm fans, 1 in front, 1 in back, and two blowholes. All 4 are operating without a hitch. IIRC, the case itself is a modified GlobalWin 802 (the mod = the 2 blowholes). Case temp is a rock solid 24° C.


3) Are you living in an oven??


Nope. I keep the thermostat at 60° F all day, and only turn it up to 68° F when my wife comes home.


4) Do you have an AMD desirable PSU unit? i.e. one with a fan on the bottom sucking in air from above the psu?

I have an 401W Enermax w/two fans. The second fan is pointing downward - I may have mounted that sucker upside down. :o I'll change that immediately.


5) Have you accidentially cranked the voltages right up? Check they're on default, and that they're set to 1.65.

My CPU core voltage is fluctuating between 1.63 and 1.64. I've never messed with these, as I haven't overclocked this particular machine yet.


With the stock retail HSF, my 2500 would hit 60, when in games often. I thoroughly recomend the Thermaltake Silent Boost tho, quite cheap compared to something like an SLK900, comes with fan, and is exceptionally quiet.. My cpu max's about 50 under load with at 2.2Ghz.

I'm actually seriously considering the Thermalright SP-97. It's a bit pricey for an HSF ($56 + ~ $10 for a fan), but I'd like to get my CPU as cool as humanly possible without using water cooling.



UPDATE: I've shut off the emergency shutoff feature, but it still shuts down after a few minutes of operation. I don't know wth is going on. After it shuts down, it won't let me start it back up again until I unplug the PSU and plug it back in again. I'm beginning to suspect the power management on the motherboard. I've also checked for a new BIOS update; I'm running the latest.

EDIT: I just realized that the time between startup and auto-shutdown has been decreasing. This morning, I played Max Payne 2 for about 30 minutes before it hosed, then it was down to playing for about 10 minutes, and now from startup to shutdown it runs about 2 minutes.

Nutty
03-03-04, 05:01 PM
Hmmm.. it sounds like your HSF just isn't working.. Have you tried giving it a good blow, to get the dust and fluff out? Or is it new?

What thermal compound are you using? Maybe you're putting too much on, or not enough? Is there anything that could be causing the heatsink to not be fully flush on the core?

MUYA
03-03-04, 06:30 PM
Vash, I am using the same mobo as you. What BIOS are u using I use the version 20 I think when the NVSU was first implemented in the BIOS. Later releases just borked my RAM timings and it would crash.

I have the 2800+ oc to 2.2Ghz (default voltage)and yet my temps are around 39-42 celcius when idling, when on full it can reach upto 45-48 degrees. No difference between MBM reports, ABits EQ thing reports and BIOS reports of temps.

I also use a thermalright SLK900A HS with a Delta 80mm fan.

BTW I use artic cermaquie and it was shown to be not so uff and rather competitive against silver based thrmal grease. I read that I think at mad shrimps.

Have u set in Bios, CPU Disconnects on? Maybe that has something to do with it. Themal throttling? I have that set to 50%. Try those settings if you haven't and see what happen dude.

Vash
03-03-04, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Nutty
Hmmm.. it sounds like your HSF just isn't working.. Have you tried giving it a good blow, to get the dust and fluff out? Or is it new?

What thermal compound are you using? Maybe you're putting too much on, or not enough? Is there anything that could be causing the heatsink to not be fully flush on the core?

Yeah, I gave the HSF a good blow first thing. No dice. There was quite a bit of cat hair/dust in it, so I cleaned it out really well. I'm using Artic Silver Ceramique, and I'm pretty sure that I applied an appropriate amount. And I did tighten that sucker up pretty good.

Muya - good suggestions. I'll check those out.


Right now, the computer stays on for about 2 minutes before shutting off - why it does this after I turned off the emergency shutdown feature I'm not sure. I'll check out those settings, Muya, see if that does anything. But I suspect that the mobo may be a lost cause. It's been a bit twitchy since I got it, and if it turned out to be the culprit, I wouldn't be surprised.


Everyone - thank you for all the suggestions and help. You guys kick flange.

UPDATE: CPU Throttling was disabled, I enabled that. CPU Disconnects was disabled, I enabled that to - should I have? I'm also using the version 21 BIOS.

MUYA
03-04-04, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Vash

UPDATE: CPU Throttling was disabled, I enabled that. CPU Disconnects was disabled, I enabled that to - should I have? I'm also using the version 21 BIOS.

Yes enable CPU disconnect as they I think makes the CPU operate at lower % when idle.

I think it has always worked for me.

Vash
03-04-04, 05:33 PM
Ok, so I finally got some time to run some more tests, and the first thing I noticed was that when MBM tried to start up when Windows loaded, my machine would shut down every single time.

So the next time that I started it up, it gave me the option to stuff scanning on two ports that some motherboards have, and some don't - I shut it off, and no more random shutdowns.

I also reset my BIOS and then changed the simple stuff: CPU clockspeed, FSB speed, shut off my serial ATA controller. Made sure that CPU throttling was set to 50%, and that CPU Disconnect was enabled. Reboot.

Now MBM reports that I'm sitting at a solid 48-49° C when idling or under a small load (like when I'm running Firefox). This is good. I'm going to fire up Max Payne 2 and see what the temps look like after I do some brief gaming. But I think I might be out of the thickest part of the woods.

If things remain normal, then I'll start looking into a new HSF. If not, then I'll look into getting the motherboard RMA'd.

Thanks for your help, guys. I really appreciate it!

Vash
03-04-04, 05:40 PM
Under load, temps went up to 55° C. That's a little more reasonable to me. I'm going to do more testing, but I think this might be taken care of. Next stop, the Heatsink Factory (http://www.heatsinkfactory.com) .

Nutty
03-04-04, 05:50 PM
So what was the problem? Motherboard monitor going bad? Before I overclocked and pushed the voltage up, my motherboard monitor would sometimes cause my pc to reboot. I also got alot of IE crashes too, but since I upped the voltage, and tested it with prime95, its been stable as hell.

Glad its sorted anyhow.

Vash
03-04-04, 06:36 PM
When MBM installs, it asks if it should scan these two ports: $2E and $4E. From the Help File:

When you turn on this switch, MBM will scan on the $2E and $4E bus for devices. This might cause a crash of your system if you have no device there. This seems to happen more on older systems than new systems.


It would have been nice if they'd mentioned that in the install process, and perhaps not set it as the bloody default to begin with. :banghead:

MUYA
03-04-04, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Vash
When MBM installs, it asks if it should scan these two ports: $2E and $4E. From the Help File:




It would have been nice if they'd mentioned that in the install process, and perhaps not set it as the bloody default to begin with. :banghead:

Glad your CPU temps are down :D Still too much it seems. My 2800+@2.2Ghz 's temp is reported lower than yours. A nice old Thermalright SLK will do the trick, invest in one :D

Also I have never had a problem with MBM5.

Vash
03-04-04, 06:53 PM
Yup, a HSF purchase is definitely on the horizon - an SLK or one of the new heatpipe models (only $10 difference, and the Thermalright SP-97 outdoes the latest SLK by a good 4° C ). I think that the higher temps might be attributed to the fact that my current HSF is aluminum, not copper.

Now that I've got that port thing sorted out, MBM is my friend. :)

MUYA
03-04-04, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Vash
Yup, a HSF purchase is definitely on the horizon - an SLK or one of the new heatpipe models (only $10 difference, and the Thermalright SP-97 outdoes the latest SLK by a good 4° C ). I think that the higher temps might be attributed to the fact that my current HSF is aluminum, not copper.


Oh yeah dude, copper is your friend :D

Vash
03-04-04, 07:49 PM
Well, the test results are in - temps drop down to about 44-45° C under idle, and go up to 55-56° C under load. And apparently, aside from the MBM issue, Max Payne 2 just randomly shuts my computer off. I have more testing to do, but MP2 shut me down after about 10-15 minutes, but when I fired up Halo, I played that for a good half hour, forty-five minutes without a problem.

This is going to require some more testing, I think. I have no idea what kind of situation I'm in now. *sigh*

MUYA
03-04-04, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Vash
Well, the test results are in - temps drop down to about 44-45° C under idle, and go up to 55-56° C under load. And apparently, aside from the MBM issue, Max Payne 2 just randomly shuts my computer off. I have more testing to do, but MP2 shut me down after about 10-15 minutes, but when I fired up Halo, I played that for a good half hour, forty-five minutes without a problem.

This is going to require some more testing, I think. I have no idea what kind of situation I'm in now. *sigh*

But one way or another, it's time for this little soap opera to come to an end. Thanks fo the help!

MP2 only? Maybe some of the files is coruppted? Or maybe its driver issues? Strange that.

Vash
03-04-04, 09:30 PM
Just finished testing my other games. MP2, Halo and KOTOR have all triggered a shutdown. I suppose it could be a corrupt driver somewhere - perhaps a corrupt video driver? I'm using the Omega 4.2's atm. I'm going to test the rest of the games, but 3 in a row (with varying times) is a pretty good indicator.


Maybe I should do a complete reformat/install before I declare the motherboard the culprit?


EDIT: I just realized that I've got VPU Recover set as on in my card's settings. Perhaps the VPU is getting a bit too hot and shutting everything off? That would explain why it's only shutting down when I'm playing games.

Vash
03-04-04, 10:21 PM
Went over to Rage3D to see what their FAQ had to say. One of the items said that you should make sure that your soundcard and the vid card aren't sharing the same IRQ - and that this is especially a problem with Soundblaster cards.

And lo! What did I see what I checked the IRQ settings?

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/Vash_TS/IRQ_Settings.jpg

So now my questions is, how do I remedy this? I'm hunting right now, but if anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

saturnotaku
03-04-04, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Vash
So now my questions is, how do I remedy this? I'm hunting right now, but if anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

Easiest thing to do would be to uninstall your sound drivers, shut down and move the sound card to another slot. On my NF7-S, my Audigy 2 ZS is in the very bottom slot. It has its own IRQ (18) while my network card sits on 17 and my video card and firewire controller have 19. No problems whatsoever using this setup.

Good luck!

Nutty
03-05-04, 03:43 AM
Never had a problem with IRQ sharing myself, They are designed to be shared, if its a problem it's because someone is writing shoddy device drivers.

saturnotaku
03-05-04, 06:41 AM
He is using an SB Live y'know. ;)