View Full Version : So what about heat and power on the new round of cards ?
I may have missed it but are there any predictions on heat and power consumption for the next gen graphic cards ?
(based on rumors floating round of course)
This is seriously starting to be a decisive factor in my buying decisions.
I managed to get my system fairly quiet (3200XP and a passively cooled GF4 on a 350watt supply) and would rather not install massive cooling and a new power supply just for a video upgrade.
Originally posted by wumpie
I may have missed it but are there any predictions on heat and power consumption for the next gen graphic cards ?
(based on rumors floating round of course)
This is seriously starting to be a decisive factor in my buying decisions.
I managed to get my system fairly quiet (3200XP and a passively cooled GF4 on a 350watt supply) and would rather not install massive cooling and a new power supply just for a video upgrade.
You are out of luck, the new generations of GFX cards will mostly require (NV40 at least it seems) quite an inaudilbly challeneged HSF setup. Power Requirements? I dunno but, 350W may cut it. Personally I upgraded to a True Power 480W PSU from ANtec not so long ago....just in case. :D
Mariner
03-07-04, 08:21 AM
The rumours that I've heard are that NV40 may dissipate up to 150W! :eek:
If true, Voodoo Volts here we come... :D
Originally posted by MUYA
You are out of luck, the new generations of GFX cards will mostly require (NV40 at least it seems) quite an inaudilbly challeneged HSF setup. Power Requirements? I dunno but, 350W may cut it. Personally I upgraded to a True Power 480W PSU from ANtec not so long ago....just in case. :D
Hear Hear, True Power 350w here. My computer is for music and stuff and the system is next to me so that would be a bummer. Silence is golden unless I decide to make some noises lol.
Originally posted by Mariner
The rumours that I've heard are that NV40 may dissipate up to 150W! :eek:
If true, Voodoo Volts here we come... :D
If that is true people are gonna have lots of fun running THAT alongside a Prescott. Maybe I'll skip a few generations till the next breakthrough that deals with efficiency issues. It's not like we're trying to generate heat or light in our systems.
In the 'ideal world' processing should produce ZERO heat. (But I'm willing to settle for 30% waste conversion :) )
GlowStick
03-07-04, 07:37 PM
The thing about power and heat dissapaiton is most people dont know about cards that are already out.
Its pritty hard to test heat dissapation and how much it draws, and manufactures really dont slap it on their boxes as a feature because usually no no cares.
EMunEeE
03-07-04, 10:42 PM
Yea I think the NV40 is gonna be a mofo beast. Beast not performance wise, but a beast to cool efficiently.
Woodelf
03-07-04, 11:59 PM
They're definitly running hot these day's, as I tried to 80w pelt my 9500.
No go.:(
Originally posted by Mariner
The rumours that I've heard are that NV40 may dissipate up to 150W! :eek:
Coincidentally that is the same as Tejas! It's interesting to examine Intel's solution (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20030920001532.html) to the heat problem. Because there is no room for a huge heatsink, I'm guessing NV40 will have a fan+heatsink on both sides of the card. Not only would the first PCI slot be blocked, but on many motherboards the AMR slot as well! Oh and of course two fans means twice the noise :]
Just speculating but it seems likely.
Originally posted by Mariner
The rumours that I've heard are that NV40 may dissipate up to 150W! :eek:
Be afraid... Be very afraid...
NV40 Rig-> :flame: <-Guy Sitting Behind NV40 Rig At LAN Party
I doubt the cooling solution will be as huge as the CPU ones. Remember even though they(GPUs) have more transistors than CPUs, they still run a lot slower in terms of raw MHz. ie 400-500MHz compared to 3GHz of a CPU. If anything we will see the return of the Dustbuster in a new incarnation of some sort.
Originally posted by MUYA
I doubt the cooling solution will be as huge as the CPU ones. Remember even though they(GPUs) have more transistors than CPUs, they still run a lot slower in terms of raw MHz. ie 400-500MHz compared to 3GHz of a CPU. If anything we will see the return of the Dustbuster in a new incarnation of some sort.
Good point about the lower speeds. On the other hand CPUs are entering 90nm area whereas the next GPUs are still using the 130nm process (?) coupled with a monster transistor count.
P4 EE has 160mill or so transistors on a 0.13u process and runs at 3.2/3.4GHz...... :rofl
Originally posted by wumpie
Good point about the lower speeds. On the other hand CPUs are entering 90nm area whereas the next GPUs are still using the 130nm process (?) coupled with a monster transistor count.
Still even with 130nm process the GPU shouldn't be overly akin to a furnace. A more than normal extreme Cooling setup might IMHO do the trick.
Bah, just use larger thicker fans. Although i guess that wouldn't be effective like on a CPU as these simply cool the HS which narrows down to the CPU die.. ;\ Still.. i think larger fans are the way, kinda like on the 9800XT, but if they need to, then go thicker as well.
I wont have a problem cooling them but.. not only do i have a fan above my AGP/PCI slots but i also might get one of those vantec fan card things for my PCI slot.. i wont get it just yet though, as i'm not overclocking my 9800pro and want to make sure the thing(fan card) will fit in a PCI-E slot ;p
Originally posted by Viral
Bah, just use larger thicker fans. Although i guess that wouldn't be effective like on a CPU as these simply cool the HS which narrows down to the CPU die.. ;\ Still.. i think larger fans are the way, kinda like on the 9800XT, but if they need to, then go thicker as well.
I wont have a problem cooling them but.. not only do i have a fan above my AGP/PCI slots but i also might get one of those vantec fan card things for my PCI slot.. i wont get it just yet though, as i'm not overclocking my 9800pro and want to make sure the thing(fan card) will fit in a PCI-E slot ;p
heh yeah the uncertainty factor rears it fugly head. :D
I personally have a Zalman HP80a HS on my 9700Pro with a 92 MM fan blowing on it :D And boy does it makes noise...does it ever ...so does the 80mm on the SLK-900A. I might have to save up more for a quiet Waterchill or swiftech...if I could get them here in Hong Kong :D
Originally posted by MUYA
heh yeah the uncertainty factor rears it fugly head. :D
I personally have a Zalman HP80a HS on my 9700Pro with a 92 MM fan blowing on it :D And boy does it makes noise...does it ever ...so does the 80mm on the SLK-900A. I might have to save up more for a quiet Waterchill or swiftech...if I could get them here in Hong Kong :D
Why doesnt anyone use the fans or hardware the way it comes?
The 9800Pro fan is fine, Why mess with it? For an extra 3 FPS? My P4 2.8c does 3.1+ without breaking a sweat using the retail Intel HSF.
Soylent
03-08-04, 01:29 PM
We can only hope that manufacturers will finally make things clock down, go idle or even shut down portions of the chip when not in use.
If it could be done I think that even a 0.5 kW peak monster GPU would be completely acceptable if it would use very little power in 2d(e.g 20W or something) and if it could be cooled somewhat quietly even during full load.
Surface area of the die seems to stay pretty constant but power consumption goes up so the heat transfer medium between the core and the heatsink is going to be of increasing importance.
Any one dare do some wild speculation of what cooling we'll be using a few years down the road if things continue to get hotter?
A diamond slab bonded directly to the CPU/GPU surface?(hey, not that unrealistic, synthetic diamonds made with vapor deposition are getting pretty cheap). A bundle of heatpipes that distrubute heat evenly throughout the heatsink connected to a cavity in the heat sink center above the core(so that the device may be cooled rapidly and heat distributed quickly and evenly to the sink)?
I think the graphics card and processor manufacturers will avoid water cooling for as long as they possibly can unless an absolutely fool-proof and simple to mount system can be made.
I think it was Cooligy that is testing on-chip watercooling and claiming impressive performance as well.
Dug up a link:
http://www.pcsympathy.com/article318.html
Sounds like a plan...
Woodelf
03-08-04, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Spotch
Why doesnt anyone use the fans or hardware the way it comes?
The 9800Pro fan is fine, Why mess with it? For an extra 3 FPS? My P4 2.8c does 3.1+ without breaking a sweat using the retail Intel HSF.
I gained 4000 in 2001se with my Vapo, by adding a huge copper sink/fan, and memory sink's. got me to 20,000 with My old 9800pro. 21.000 with volt mod (big mistake, I know).
I've got the same setup on my 9500, and it's no slouch either at 18,495. Give it a try. :p
Woodelf
03-08-04, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Soylent
Any one dare do some wild speculation of what cooling we'll be using a few years down the road if things continue to get hotter?
K,
I'm guessing watercooling as they did with auto's and motorcycles.
Possibly factory sealed unit's that are maint. free. I could see dell with a watercooled PC someday.
Intel already has plans for water cooled systems, atleast for the server market. It will probably be awhile before that happens in desktop systems.
Woodelf
03-08-04, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by nobie
Intel already has plans for water cooled systems, atleast for the server market. It will probably be awhile before that happens in desktop systems.
See, told you so. Just kidding, I really had no idea. :D
Originally posted by Spotch
Why doesnt anyone use the fans or hardware the way it comes?
The 9800Pro fan is fine, Why mess with it? For an extra 3 FPS? My P4 2.8c does 3.1+ without breaking a sweat using the retail Intel HSF.
BECAUSE I WANNA BE l337
OK???
thast for the 9700 Pro with the Zalman.
As for the 2800+, it was OEM and hence no retail/stock HSF from AMD buddie.
also if you recall, the AMD retail HSF are rubibish even though they are made by coolermaster. AthlonXP doesn't have a nice heat spreader which probably gives the P4 better cooling characteristics even with stock/retail HSF.
:D
Originally posted by Woodelf
I gained 4000 in 2001se with my Vapo, by adding a huge copper sink/fan, and memory sink's. got me to 20,000 with My old 9800pro. 21.000 with volt mod (big mistake, I know).
I've got the same setup on my 9500, and it's no slouch either at 18,495. Give it a try. :p
Oh sorry I dont play 2001se. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by MUYA
BECAUSE I WANNA BE l337
OK???
thast for the 9700 Pro with the Zalman.
As for the 2800+, it was OEM and hence no retail/stock HSF from AMD buddie.
also if you recall, the AMD retail HSF are rubibish even though they are made by coolermaster. AthlonXP doesn't have a nice heat spreader which probably gives the P4 better cooling characteristics even with stock/retail HSF.
:D
No warranty either. Retail is the way to go.... Usually the cost is only a few dollars more. Certainly worth the piece of mind.
Originally posted by Spotch
Oh sorry I dont play 2001se. :rolleyes:
No warranty either. Retail is the way to go.... Usually the cost is only a few dollars more. Certainly worth the piece of mind.
I got the 2800+ where it is warrantied ;) As u can't get things from AMD thru official channels in NEPAL. So u have to order it and laso pay a premium for delivery and it best have a local waranty. And it did.
Also say you bought an OEM CPU in newegg and it was DOA? would newegg not replace that or a retail shop? Curious. U can in Hong Kong, where I am at now.
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