View Full Version : OMG! more leaks about nv40 and r420 emerge!
Geforce4ti4200
03-07-04, 02:14 PM
See here:(ati)
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/...20details.shtml
and here:(nvidia)
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/...pegsecret.shtml
oh wow! I am going to copy and paste this just in case Nvidia and/or ATI shuts them down for violation of NDA!
Description
Once the Nvidia PR machine kicked into gear information about the NV40 has been flying all over the WWW. ATI has hardly had a chance to complain about important leaked information or to accidentally drop some papers in an exhibition floor.
As launch time approached and as the hype on Nvidia made the NV40 seem more like a space shuttle than a simple graphics card, ATI has had to react and has finally managed to misplace some vital R420 information.
There will be two versions of ATI's new chip. One based on DDR1 and one based on the DDR2 variation, also known as GDDR 3. The DDR1 boards have been codenamed Skateboard while the second R420 boards will get the more prestigious Olympic Snowboard codename.
All R420 based cards will be AGP 8X and VGA, DVI and VIVO ready and will support DirectX 9.0c meaning that they will be pixel shader 3.0 ready.
The high end boards will carry the XT mark, not a great surprise there, and will run at 500MHz for the GPU and at about 1000MHz for the memory. They will carry 256 MB of memory (8x32) with a 256-bit bus.
Much more information on these cards will come up as we approach CeBit and we will pass on any further information on them.
my comments? looks like someone is going to leak out info and break the NDA that ATI will make people sign at cebit!
________________
Description
As the time of its release approaches, further details of Nvidia's NV40 chip are beginning to surface which suggest that this will be an all-round impressive competitor for the coveted graphics throne.
As is usually the case Nvidia will release two versions of the NV40, an Ultra and a non-Ultra. The Ultra, which will be the flagship board for the company, will have faster clock and memory speeds but will be extremely expensive, about USD 500. The estimated speed for the memory, at this time, is 600 MHz and it will be GDDR 3 meaning that it will run a lot cooler since it consumes much less power.
The simpler version will cost about USD 300 and will have lower clock and memory speeds.
There are also plans for a 128-bit version of the card.
In its efforts to introduce the new chip as an ultimate cinematic product the graphics giant has plans for a variety of new video features for the NV40. Boards based on the chip will be ready for HDTV and PVR.
The PVR part is the most interesting with Nvidia promising that the chip will be able to handle MPEG 1/2/4 encode and decode as well as WMV9 decode acceleration. If such capabilities become available with the new boards that will mean that work previously carried out by the processor will now be handled by the graphics card, releasing valuable resources for other tasks.
One question about these new details which has yet to be answered however, comes from the Morgan Stanley Semiconductor and Systems Conference which Nvidia's boss, Jen-Hsun Huang addressed. During that conference Mr. Huang mentioned that at any one time there could be as many as five distinct NV4x graphics processors in production...
Such a statement allows for the possibility that some of these features, including the 210 million transistor version of the chip, may be delayed for a long time after April, when the NV40 is scheduled to appear. So it could be that the MPEG capabilities or the 600 MHz memory or any other hyped feature may not surface until the NV45, the fifth of the NV4x chips, is ready.
Either way it is clear that the NV4x is locked and loaded and waiting in ambush for ATI's R420 to begin showing its cards and the Canadian company's chip will need a very good hand if its going to compete with Nvidia's little beast.
my comments? more delays not looking good for nvidia. If they already have the ram, why not use it now? Thats not gonna look good if the nv40 ends up at the same clocks the r420 is, then the r420 will just own the nv40
GlowStick
03-07-04, 02:20 PM
Both links are dead, seems like they got their info from the same place the inq did!
Geforce4ti4200
03-07-04, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Both links are dead, seems like they got their info from the same place the inq did!
Oh Nvidia and/or Ati wasted no time shutting them down! just read what I copied and pasted, all the juice is right there ;)
silence
03-07-04, 04:03 PM
correct me if i am wrong...but there is nothing new here. all this info has been posted both here and on beyond3d many times....it's just nicely written (unlike INQ);)
GlowStick
03-07-04, 04:16 PM
Ok after looking at their other stories, i really do feel that they may just be quoteing INQ, their news timeline is alot alike.
Actually there is one new bit of info.
The R420 will support pixel shader 3 that is all, everything else is the same as has been said before we shall of course all see whether it is lies or not soon .
Nebuchadnezzar
03-07-04, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by silence
correct me if i am wrong...but there is nothing new here. all this info has been posted both here and on beyond3d many times....it's just nicely written (unlike INQ);) Old news is always so exciting! :eek:
Didn't the NV3X have hardware MPEG?
I also found this on that site:
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/nvidiacatchatioff-guard.shtml
Nvidia has unofficially confirmed some hardware specs of its upcoming NV40 chip and it is quite possible that the winner of the next round of the graphics war may have already been decided.
According to the company, its new chip will feature a full 16 pipelines, not the 8x2 set-up which had been expected. This change means that Nvidia's new GPU will have a staggering 205-210 million transistors and not the expected 175 million.
It seems that ATI's inexperience at this game may have gotten the best of them since they had been eager to claim that their R420 would beat Nvidia in, at least, 10 common games. These claims however, were made based on Nvidia using the predicted 175 million transistors, information which ATI had and was obviously flawed.
Recent gossip from the Intel Developer Forum did claim that Nvidia had an ace up their sleeve and it would appear that it has slipped it out. The timing of the announcement was careful so ATI could not respond with a change in hardware, even though the NV40 has slipped by a month.
This latest news adds another exciting chapter in the epic battle between the two companies and no one is foolish enough to write ATI off quite yet. The Canadian firm has so far proved that it can match its rival move for move.
Ok that's not new information either, but they claim it came straight from Nvidia? Is this site trustworthy?
Originally posted by nobie
I also found this on that site:
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/nvidiacatchatioff-guard.shtml
Ok that's not new information either, but they claim it came straight from Nvidia? Is this site trustworthy?
I dun think so.
There is also confusion in the way transistors are counted from both IHVs
GlowStick
03-07-04, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by nobie
I also found this on that site:
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/hardware/nvidiacatchatioff-guard.shtml
Ok that's not new information either, but they claim it came straight from Nvidia? Is this site trustworthy? Well after browseing around the site, its really big, not a rinkey dink operation, so they could have credibility.
So they do seem big enough that they will get the back room passes to take a look, but as all those people find out, they are not saposta say anything about it heh.
mikechai
03-07-04, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Well after browseing around the site, its really big, not a rinkey dink operation, so they could have credibility.
So they do seem big enough that they will get the back room passes to take a look, but as all those people find out, they are not saposta say anything about it heh.
Their site seems big but their hardware news seems identical to what the inquirer said(not words but content). There is no "new stuff" from the site that is not already mentioned by the inquirer.
Woodelf
03-07-04, 11:53 PM
I definatly won't be buying into any of nvidia's paper hype again.
I'll wait for the 10 preview/review's of each card on nV News's front page
before I even start getting hyped on either card. It's just not like the good old day's, when you could halfway trust a vid card company to deliver. I'm more hyped about the vaperware (HL2, D3) were suposed to be playing on the card's we have.:rolleyes:
ya i hope this time they give a card to nvnews apon the nv4x's release ..if theres one site that deserves a sample card its this one !!! oh wait no i take that back i deserve a card not them ;)
rets
Geforce4ti4200
03-08-04, 01:17 AM
so its confirmed the nv40 is 16 pipes? wow sweet the r420 is gonna have to sell at a loss and ati wont be making many of those either, they may just stick to making more 9800 pros and try to gain market in the midrange sector
It seems the date on the MegaGames article is 2/27, and the article at The Inquirer is dated 2/26. Looks like a cut-and-paste job to me.
Spiritwalker
03-08-04, 01:25 AM
well word is that the R420 could end up being 8x2 (extreme pipes) with 6 vertex shader units all running at 500MHz along with the 1000MHz DDR3
but for all we really know it could be 8x3 12x1 or 16x1
Have to wait for a month to really know ;)
cthellis
03-08-04, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
so its confirmed the nv40 is 16 pipes? wow sweet the r420 is gonna have to sell at a loss and ati wont be making many of those either, they may just stick to making more 9800 pros and try to gain market in the midrange sector
Since when is anything ever "confirmed" until the NDA drops? :p
silence
03-08-04, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
so its confirmed the nv40 is 16 pipes? wow sweet the r420 is gonna have to sell at a loss and ati wont be making many of those either, they may just stick to making more 9800 pros and try to gain market in the midrange sector
i find it really amusing that ppl tend to react like this before any NDA expired or there is any CONFIRMED specs for both parts......
all we know is that both camps, on couple occasions, stated that they will own other side, which makes me think they both have monster cards and i can't wait to see some benchies as soon as NDA expires.
TBH....if it's true that "first NV40" is scrapped and that they will lauch what was supposed to be NV45 as NV40 i am little bit worried.....
"original" NV40 was 175 mill transistors, large leap over NV3x gen products and prolly base design for NV4x gen.....and they scrapped it?
Originally posted by silence
i find it really amusing that ppl tend to react like this before any NDA expired or there is any CONFIRMED specs for both parts......
all we know is that both camps, on couple occasions, stated that they will own other side, which makes me think they both have monster cards and i can't wait to see some benchies as soon as NDA expires.
TBH....if it's true that "first NV40" is scrapped and that they will lauch what was supposed to be NV45 as NV40 i am little bit worried.....
"original" NV40 was 175 mill transistors, large leap over NV3x gen products and prolly base design for NV4x gen.....and they scrapped it?
Stop being a buzzkill, half the fun is in the speculating ;) Or reading of the speculations. :D
They had a enormous amount of time between the nv30 which was also delayed (by 6 months?) and the launch of the nv38. So, within that time and now, they probably just managed to return nv40s internally (being developed in parralel) and then further improve it to get it close to Nv45 specs which of course, we all do not know but, was widely rumoured as the refresh on the NV40 and also to be manufactured at 110nm process with maybe a few bits thrown in. NV40 may have merged with the nv45 project at some point.
So they went along with the nv45 on the 130nm process. Nothing wrong only except it may not clock as high and certainly consume more power. The decision not to wait for a 110nm may have also been partly due to their feeling that because the migration towards 130nm process went bad, they probably felt that they would go with the mature 130nm process and see how they can hold out instead of whole lot of headaches on the smaller 110 nm process. Just a theory. :D
I love speculations :D
silence
03-08-04, 09:17 AM
oh....you got me wrong;)
i love speculation also....i am lurking @ beyond3d all the time:D
i love to hear every bit of info that gets out,i just don't like NV<>ATi flaming already, IMO, both cards will be large step ahead cause neither company can afford to put bad product on the market.....i think the best proof for that is NV's decision to skip "original" nv 40 and go for nv45 instead with some delay.
from what i read, some samples of 175 mil trannie nv40 were out to devs, but they won't launch that card as top of the line flagship (maybe they launch it as something of mid-to-high end card with lower price tag).
having nv40/5 (rumored to be 8x2/16x0) as flagship and "original" nv40 between mid and high end (rumored to be 8x1) would prolly mean great price for "original" nv40......something like current 5900xt card :D (that might also fit with what was said in coference call, about 5 nv4x based cards in the market)
i was more wondering about why did NV decide to scrap "original" nv40.....got some info on r420 maybe?:angel:
that could mean one thing.....r420 is damn bloody fast if they had to scrap "original" nv40 and go for nv45 instead and delay their next gen part....don't you agree????
ahhhhh....speculations:D
Originally posted by silence
oh....you got me wrong;)
i love speculation also....i am lurking @ beyond3d all the time:D
i love to hear every bit of info that gets out,i just don't like NV<>ATi flaming already, IMO, both cards will be large step ahead cause neither company can afford to put bad product on the market.....i think the best proof for that is NV's decision to skip "original" nv 40 and go for nv45 instead with some delay.
from what i read, some samples of 175 mil trannie nv40 were out to devs, but they won't launch that card as top of the line flagship (maybe they launch it as something of mid-to-high end card with lower price tag).
having nv40/5 (rumored to be 8x2/16x0) as flagship and "original" nv40 between mid and high end (rumored to be 8x1) would prolly mean great price for "original" nv40......something like current 5900xt card :D (that might also fit with what was said in coference call, about 5 nv4x based cards in the market)
i was more wondering about why did NV decide to scrap "original" nv40.....got some info on r420 maybe?:angel:
that could mean one thing.....r420 is damn bloody fast if they had to scrap "original" nv40 and go for nv45 instead and delay their next gen part....don't you agree????
ahhhhh....speculations:D
/Speculation mode or Codswallop Mode
The NV40 got bumped to nv40 probably because the nv45 wasn't far of from being finished itself or sumat with a timeframe of a Quater or something of the nv40? They are developed in parralel no? Thats the only thing I can think of. Maybe I completely wrong with this rant.
If it can do 16X1 but doesn't have a rigid (so to speak) 16 pipeline then its probably 8X2? 16X1 rigid would definately be major scoopage on NV's part.
yes you could be right in speculating that the r420 was going to be faster than the original nv40 and they canned that and went fullsteam with developing the nv45 full steam.
/Speculation mode or Codswallop Mode
...addicted to reading speculations too!
Geforce4ti4200
03-08-04, 11:43 AM
question guys: think there will be more leaks shortly after cebit by someone violating NDA?
silence
03-08-04, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
question guys: think there will be more leaks shortly after cebit by someone violating NDA?
i hope so:angel:
jbirney
03-08-04, 01:38 PM
MUYA,
about your speculations...I am still not seeing it a full 16x1 due to bandwidth. We saw from the NV30 that had many BW saving tech compared to the GF4 that; with out raw bandwidth to feed your hungry GPU then your gone to miss on possible perfromance gains...of course looking at the last Matrox card having raw bandwidth with out that BW saving tech is just as bad :)
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